Author Topic: At what age do you want to retire?  (Read 2700 times)

rcjordan

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2019, 01:30:46 AM »

rcjordan

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2019, 11:23:22 AM »
"Born in 1961, the oldest Xers are graying, aching, 57. And in trouble. A New School study projects that 40% of workers ages 50-60 and their spouses who are not poor or near poor will fall into poverty or near poverty after they retire ... The rapidity and scale of downward mobility among the elderly will shock American society, precipitating political upheavals as dramatic as those we saw during the 1930s."

40% of American middle class face poverty in retirement, study says
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/12/40percent-of-american-middle-class-face-poverty-in-retirement-study-says.html


Bernie's Plan to Address the Retirement Crisis: Good It Exists, But Not Nearly Enough to Solve the Problem
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_ted_rall/bernie_s_plan_to_address_the_retirement_crisis_good_it_exists_but_not_nearly_enough_to_solve_the_problem

« Last Edit: August 03, 2019, 11:31:03 AM by rcjordan »

ergophobe

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2019, 01:59:58 AM »
Once accustomed to a certain style of living, most people have trouble giving something up to stay within a budget.

So when prices rise faster than wages....

Also, I just feel like people (Including me) are not nearly as tough as in times past. Most people in their 40s and 50s that I see are incapable of physical labor. By the standard of 40 years ago, they would be disabled or nearly so. Not to mention that non-professional, unskilled labor is mostly a lot nastier than it was just 20 years ago. So if you fall from middle class, the fall is long and hard

rcjordan

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2019, 01:05:14 PM »
>many people I know have a negative savings rate yet drive expensive cars, go out to eat in pricy restaurants and indulge in other forms of conspicuous consumption

Here ya go, LM.  Saw this quote yesterday on a machinist's shop video.  I'm thinking of getting it as a tattoo, hhh.

Work While They Sleep.
Learn While They Party.
Save While They Spend.
Then Live Like They Dream.

- Abhinav Jain



littleman

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #34 on: August 09, 2019, 04:33:02 AM »
I have the first three down, waiting for the fourth.

Rupert

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2019, 01:28:08 PM »
The antidote to that:

Quote
There was once a businessman who was sitting by the beach in a small Brazilian village.
As he sat, he saw a Brazilian fisherman rowing a small boat towards the shore having caught quite few big fish.
The businessman was impressed and asked the fisherman, “How long does it take you to catch so many fish?”
The fisherman replied, “Oh, just a short while.”
“Then why don’t you stay longer at sea and catch even more?” The businessman was astonished.
“This is enough to feed my whole family,” the fisherman said.
The businessman then asked, “So, what do you do for the rest of the day?”
The fisherman replied, “Well, I usually wake up early in the morning, go out to sea and catch a few fish, then go back and play with my kids. In the afternoon, I take a nap with my wife, and evening comes, I join my buddies in the village for a drink — we play guitar, sing and dance throughout the night.”

The businessman offered a suggestion to the fisherman.
“I am a PhD in business management. I could help you to become a more successful person. From now on, you should spend more time at sea and try to catch as many fish as possible. When you have saved enough money, you could buy a bigger boat and catch even more fish. Soon you will be able to afford to buy more boats, set up your own company, your own production plant for canned food and distribution network. By then, you will have moved out of this village and to Sao Paulo, where you can set up HQ to manage your other branches.”

The fisherman continues, “And after that?”
The businessman laughs heartily, “After that, you can live like a king in your own house, and when the time is right, you can go public and float your shares in the Stock Exchange, and you will be rich.”
The fisherman asks, “And after that?”
The businessman says, “After that, you can finally retire, you can move to a house by the fishing village, wake up early in the morning, catch a few fish, then return home to play with kids, have a nice afternoon nap with your wife, and when evening comes, you can join your buddies for a drink, play the guitar, sing and dance throughout the night!”
The fisherman was puzzled, “Isn’t that what I am doing now?”
... Make sure you live before you die.

ergophobe

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2019, 03:57:51 PM »
Rupert... the problem is that we live in the US and have the healthcare problem.

So now that we are scaling back and trying to emulate the Brazilian fisherman, we find that we have an insurance bill (property + car + health) of $23,200 per year in after tax money. We recently found a provider who knocks $5000 off our property insurance, so we are only at 18,200 in insurance :-)

If not for that, we would mostly be living like the Brazilian fisherman honestly. With four kids, it's even harder.

Easy to romanticize, but hard to pull off without ending up with high anxiety in practice. America has become the Land of Anxiety.

Rupert

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2019, 04:19:59 PM »
Quote
America has become the Land of Anxiety.
Same here. But the Brazilian is right.

We are only anxious because we have stuff to lose.
The Nepalese are the same as the Brazilian. Happy generally .

We have too many fixed costs, I keep wanting to scale it down, but it seems the family will not allow me too either.  :) Still keep trying.  A Mate of mine has his own flat, and lives on less than £10,000 p.a. Includes a car.

I think the only thing the Fisherman is missing from his life is the health insurance, and for end of life costs I wonder if its really the bonus we think it is.  I seem many very unhappy old folks.

I threw it in as a "food for thought" :) I know its not easy to emulate.
... Make sure you live before you die.

ergophobe

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2019, 08:44:52 PM »
We are only anxious because we have stuff to lose.
The Nepalese are the same as the Brazilian. Happy generally .

But back to the health insurance issue or homeowner's issue...

Yes, I see a lot of unhappy old people. There is a cruelty at end of life. You have to remember, though, that in past times, people were often "old" and debilitated for decades. John Calvin died at 55 after suffering from illnesses of old age for over a decade. Think about that for a second.

I was hiking in Nepal and we came across a fairly young guy who had a major leg injury, but something easy to fix in the US or UK. My friend (now a doc, but not yet at the time) asked them, "Can you take him to a doctor?" They kept saying no. He looked at me and whispered, "This guy is screwed. He will never walk again."

So yes, we have things to lose, but they are not necessarily our possessions. My fear about losing health insurance is based on the fact that my wife would be dead now without good medical treatment and we would be bankrupt if we hadn't had insurance. $700,000 in medical bills, of which we were required to pay less than $5,000.

As a historian I study a period when people in Europe lived more simply than most people in Nepal live now. There was some degree of "why worry about the future (aside from the salvation of your immortal sould)?" but that was because
 - you could die at any time
 - there was nothing you could do about it

There was a lot of anxiety about injury and death and a lot of pain associated with watching half your children and possibly 2-3 spouses die over the course of your life.

Check out the title of History 403 at Purdue:  Reformation Europe: An Age of Anxiety

Summary: "Economic transformation, social mobility, unprecedented poverty and homelessness, rebellion, the encounter with new worlds overseas, and war, all conspired with religious upheaval to make this epoch an age of anxiety."

https://cla.purdue.edu/academic/history/documents/Syllabus-Spring/403-Farr_Sp2012.pdf

There is a "world we have lost" (famous book by Peter Laslett), but one should not romanticize the "simple" life overly much.

Dating back a long time, but especially beginning in the 18th century, there is a whole literature extolling the virtues of the simple life and how much happier people were. But they are almost all written by people of means. There are some examples of memoirs from peasants who became literate who basically debunk that and say that the life of the poor was mostly a life of toil.

Now, if you go back before agriculture and look at hunting and gathering societies, that's a different deal. There, people really do seem happier and there is virtually no incidence of depression. But you still have to deal with only 25% of births resulting in someone reaching adulthood - 50% die before 1 year, another half before 20. Again, as a parent, think of that.

Quote
I threw it in as a "food for thought"

Of course. I am throwing this in as food for thought. The high-level takeway from the fisherman is that one should be happy with what one has. I think a key is to be grateful for the things that wealth brings us, like safe drinking water, for example. That is incredible. That's the other way to take the fisherman's tale.

At a young age (teenager), I started reading Buddhist literature and I realized there are two ways to attempt to satisfy desire. One is to attempt to fulfill your desire, but that process is infinite and doomed to failure and unhappiness. The other is to reduce your desire, which is finite and is the surer path to happiness.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 08:54:03 PM by ergophobe »

littleman

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2019, 10:16:48 PM »
Even though there are limitation imposed by the institutions of given societies, and the USA in particular isn't really set to let people ever have satisfaction I think a simplified, happy life is possible here.

http://www.professionalwealth.com.au/media/1116/pw-your-money-or-your-life.pdf

Ego is probably the biggest obstacle.

A 2004 Honda Civic (~$2000) is more reliable transportation than a 2019 Maserati GranTurismo (~$150,000).  If one can hop off the rat race s/he could live a pretty nice life in the first world.

Rupert

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2019, 11:56:27 AM »
So much to think about isn't there :)

I strongly believe the we in the west are the luckiest people ever to have lived. We SHOULD therefore be the happiest ever, but sadly it appears we are not.

Perhaps the big knocks of people dying in such huge numbers made those alive more aware of what they had/have.
... Make sure you live before you die.

rcjordan

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2019, 02:00:54 PM »
US: This Is, Statistically, the Worst Age to Take Social Security Benefits | The Motley Fool
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/08/18/this-is-statistically-the-worst-age-to-take-social.aspx

TL;DR: 64

Rumbas

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Re: At what age do you want to retire?
« Reply #42 on: August 19, 2019, 01:05:47 PM »
I'd like to give it until 50, but realistically it's probably 70 as pensions, savings is not nearly enough as it looks now.