Author Topic: California’s single-payer plan costs $400 billion — twice state’s entire budget  (Read 12903 times)

Mackin USA

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"There's often a big difference between the actual cost of a medical procedure and the cost that is charged after administrative bloat is factored in!"

RIGHT

and part of the Admin costs are Government Regulations ie PAPERWORK
Mr. Mackin

Brad

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>paperwork

I have the original bill from the hospital for my birth in 1959.  I've had restaurant checks longer.  It's on a piece of paper the size of a half sheet of paper.  About maybe 7 lines: room and board x days (no line items for $50 box of Kleenex), birthing room, etc. They kept new mothers and spawn in the hospital longer back in those days. Total around $3,000ish which was quite a sum back in those days.  Dad was self employed professional so we had no health insurance, cash pay. Doctor billed separately, he was our local GP, no specialists back then.  No Fathers in the delivery room, they were pacing the floors in the waiting room, smoking.

Today, that bill would be the size of a book.

But paperwork does not come just from the government, insurance companies demand paperwork and audit trails too.  Computers and photocopiers spawn paper and line items and tracking.  Hospitals track inventory.  If you had to type up everything by typewriter with carbon copies you would learn how to summarize darn quick.  National wealth also generates paperwork and jobs for shufflers because in times of plenty we can afford it, when times get lean we start complaining.

Mackin USA

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Just another point of view:

California’s Single-Payer Health Care Plan Would Cost More Than the State’s Whole Budget
Like in Colorado, New York, and Vermont, California is learning that a single-payer plan would be prohibitively expensive.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/05/23/california-single-payer-health-care-cost
Mr. Mackin

buckworks

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Methinks that someone is dishing out phony numbers.

How is Canada able to provide pretty good universal coverage for so much less than those projections?

Our family has always had competent care when we needed it. Our needs over the years have ranged from travel vaccinations to, among other things, childbirths, kidney stones, fractures and miscellaneous infections to a grandchild nearly having part of her finger amputated in an accident. She got expert care, the finger was saved and now she sometimes wins piano classes in the local music festival. I had to pay for my own travel vaccinations but the other care mentioned did not result in bills for our family.

Our system isn't perfect, but we're clearly doing something right compared to the US. Tthe average life expectancy of Canadians is three years longer than their American counterparts. Specifically, women in Canada live an average of 83 years, compared to 80 in the US; men live more than 78 years on average compared to 75 in the US. Source: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-canadians-outlive-americans-and-why-we-shouldnt-be-so-satisfied/article16147153/

This is so even though our medical costs constitute roughly a one-third smaller percentage of our GDP. Source: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS As mentioned earlier, one reason for the difference is that a better percentage of what we pay goes to actual care.

The average Canadian doesn't need to fear being bankrupted by medical bills. A Canadian who leaves or loses his/her job doesn't lose medical coverage along with it. The fact that our coverage doesn't depend on our job gives us more freedom to, among other things, look for a different position, go for more schooling, start their own business or bow out of the paid workforce to care for small children, than an American whose medical coverage is tied to their employment status. On the other side of the coin, businesses have fewer administrative costs, and in some cases will feel more flexibility to lay off employees if business requires it. (They know that Joe the pipefitter's daughter's disease will still get care regardless of Joe's job status.) The fact there's no incentive to delay getting help for problems can sometimes mean that big expenses are headed off. Those factors all have positive effects for our economy at large, and even more important, for the general well-being of our people.

What better investment could a country make than the health of its people?

grnidone

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Canada is able to negotiate lower drug costs and lower procedure costs.  Basically.

Mackin USA

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As California liberals go, the Democratic Party often follows. So it’s instructive, if not surprising, that Golden State Democrats are responding to the failure of ObamaCare by embracing single-payer health care. This proves the truism that the liberal solution to every government failure is always more government.

Many on the left championed single-payer in lieu of ObamaCare’s regulations and subsidies, but in 2010 it lacked enough support among Democrats in Congress. But with premiums soaring and insurers fleeing the Affordable Care Act exchanges, progressives are now trying to pivot to achieve their longtime dream.
California Lieutenant Governor Gavin Newsom, the frontrunner to succeed Jerry Brown as Governor next year, is running on single-payer, which shows the idea is going mainstream. At the state Democratic convention last weekend, protesters shouted down speakers who dared to ask about paying for it. The state Senate Appropriations Committee passed a single-payer bill this week, and it has a fair chance of getting to Mr. Brown’s desk.
The bill reflects the left’s Platonic ideal, with the promise of free care for everyone for everything. Patients would be entitled to an essentially unlimited list of benefits including acupuncture and chiropractic care as well as “all medical care determined to be medically appropriate by the member’s health care provider.” They could see any specialist without a referral. Co-pays and deductibles and charging premiums would be prohibited.
There would thus be no restraint on health-care utilization and costs. Patients could get treated for virtually any malady by any physician at no cost. This is probably what kids educated at California’s pre-eminent universities envision when politicians and professors promote single-payer: an efficient, free, munificent socialist paradise.

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Mr. Mackin

ergophobe

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Actually, I saw an interview with the person who was in charge of insurance programs for Nixon (I forget exactly if it was head of HHS, Medicare... I can't recall). But I was surprised to see him say that he thought long-term the US was going to have to adopt single-payer healthcare.

As Buckworks points out, the US system has the highest per-capita costs and some of the worst outcomes among major economies. Most countries have single-payer systems and better outcomes at lower cost.

That said, most countries (France in particular, but even the British NHS) face significant budgetary issues going forward. As with most complex issues, there is no simple solution. To be long-term sustainable, we have to change the way we pay for healthcare, but in both senses. That is, we probably need a single-payer system, but one in which the people who provide and receive healthcare have some skin in the game.

Mackin USA

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Mr. Mackin


Mackin USA

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“How do we possibly pay for this thing?” asked Sen. Tom Berryhill, R-Oakdale.
Mr. Mackin

littleman

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Quote

Americans, in general, support government-provided universal health care. A Pew Research Center survey taken in January found that 60 percent say that it’s the responsibility of the federal government to make sure that all Americans have health coverage. A Morning Consult/Politico poll in April found that support for a single-payer health system outweighs opposition, by 44 percent to 36 percent (with 19 percent unsure).



https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-06-01/americans-sure-seem-to-like-universal-health-care

Mackin USA

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(with 19 percent unsure)

I'm planning to wait & see what happens in Calif.
Mr. Mackin

ergophobe

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Americans, in general, support government-provided universal health care.

One problem in America is that a lot of beneficiaries of entitlement programs, aka welfare, don't see themselves as such, namely the millions of Americans on Medicare. I remember my brother talking to my uncle who has publicly-funded healthcare twice over in the form of Medicare and the VA, who said that government-funded healthcare would be a terrible thing for the country. My brother said, "Well, don't you use Medicare and the VA?"

Uncle: "That's different."

It turns out that if you look at the history of support for entitlements, it tends to be quite strong when most voters feel like the benefits go to people "like me" but much less so as it goes to "the other" which is why Reagan's portrayal as black single mothers was so effective.

Travoli

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I had a similar conversation, but it went like this:

Friend (ex Marine): Government-funded healthcare would be a terrible thing for the country.
Me: Well, didn't you get govt. healthcare and the VA?
Friend: That's how I know.

ergophobe

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Friend: That's how I know.

Ha ha! Yeah, the VA has had its challenges, that's for sure.

But I know a lot of vets who would be destitute and on the streets or in the grave if not for the VA. One friend of mine, a WWII vet, started getting dementia. He was a low-income guy living in basically a dorm room at the YMCA. Without the VA, he would have been completely screwed. The VA gave him a reasonably dignified end of life and there was no way he was getting private insurance for that.