Author Topic: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good  (Read 2162 times)

Mackin USA

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Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« on: August 02, 2017, 10:37:08 AM »
We have talked about Universal Basic Income being a remedy for unemployment cause by robots etc.

FINLAND:
http://www.cnsnews.com/commentary/daniel-mitchell/universal-basic-income-experiment-finland-not-looking-good?ref=yfp
Mr. Mackin

rcjordan

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2018, 02:13:04 AM »
Finland's basic income trial falls flat


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43866700

ergophobe

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2018, 10:12:26 PM »
Unfortunately, that article doesn't actually say anything except that some "influential OECD think tank" argues that Universal Basic Credit will work better than Universal Basic Income... and after reading the article, I don't even really understand the difference.

And then at the end, it says that the results of the study won't be known until 2019. It would be interesting to see a decent study with some basic results.

Speaking for my household, if the US had health insurance similar to most developed countries, that right there would reduce the amount of work we do in this household. If they started throwing money at us, that would reduce it again. But a the lowest end of the economic ladder, income insecurity is often what keeps people out of the job market (no transport, no phone number, etc).

I would be curious to see how it all plays out.

Oh... plus awarding income to unemployed people, as in Finland, is not what most people mean by UBI.

rcjordan

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 02:48:00 AM »
<update>

Finland's basic income experiment hits the halfway mark
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/finland-s-basic-income-experiment-hits-halfway-mark-n969211

Mackin USA

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2019, 11:52:06 AM »
Helicopter money  :o
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buckworks

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2019, 02:25:22 PM »
Canada experimented with "guaranteed annual income" back in the early 1970s, with an almost-forgotten test in Dauphin, Manitoba. Many observers considered the results to be strongly positive but the experiment was dropped when the government changed.

People generally did practical, positive things with the money. Among other results the community saw a drop in diagnosed mental health problems.

Some reading here:
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=universal+basic+income+dauphin+manitoba

nffc

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2019, 04:15:46 AM »
Via Reddit https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/9/5/20849020/alaska-permanent-fund-universal-basic-income

"It has allowed a feckless politician to capitalize on residents’ economic insecurities and reach the state’s highest office."

Well worth a read.

ergophobe

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Re: Universal Basic Income Experiment in Finland Not Looking Good
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2019, 05:29:20 PM »
Well worth a read.

Yes, thanks for posting.

Quote
In 2018, Republican state Sen. Mike Dunleavy saw an opportunity. Despite traditional Republican aversions to handouts, Dunleavy ran for governor on the campaign platform of increasing the PFD. He promised every resident up to $6,700, to make up for Walker’s cuts in 2016 and 2017 — though he was foggy on how the state could pay.

The result? Dunleavy won by a landslide.

The problem is that he now finds himself unable to fulfill his campaign promise without major cuts elsewhere.

It boggled my mind that a single politician could set the dividend amount. And then I read on...

Quote
But on top of all the cuts he’s pushed, Dunleavy agreed on August 20 to the $1,600 PFD that was passed by the legislature — meaning Alaskans still won’t get the check they thought they were voting for, because contrary to Dunleavy’s campaign messaging, the governor does not actually hold the power to set the value of the dividend. (Only the legislature does.)

And this...

Quote
None of this is to say Alaska should do away with the PFD, or that UBI activists should abandon their cause. Aspects of the PFD show tremendous promise for a similar nationwide program — it signals the US would see reduced poverty, a buoyed economy, a greater sense of ownership over the country. But these UBI enthusiasts should pay attention to the curdling effects the PFD has had on Alaska’s politics, and how it has left elections vulnerable to candidates willing to make unkeepable promises

I think the author means "more vulnerable." Ever campaign I've ever witnessed in my life was run and won based on unkeepable promises. I remember being in Europe and having Europeans ask me with dismay if Americans actually believed that Reagan would cut taxes, increase spending and reduce the deficit all at once.

I would want anything like this to run more like the Wisconsin Retirement System (of which I am a minor pensionser). Basically, they have an investment fund and your pension is based on returns. But to avoid decreasing the pension when people are also being hit by drops in the stock market, the payout is based on a five-year rolling average. So though fiscal 2019 is looking really good, it's quite likely my pension will not go up, because they are still off-setting two bad years in the five-year average.

This is all done actuarially and not at the whim of a politician.

I'm not sure how that would work for UBI, since it wouldn't start with a capital fund. Even if you base it on a similar formula as applied to a particular tax, politicians can always mess with the taxes. Though I suppose the difficulties of reforming Social Security would argue against that assertion.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 05:31:23 PM by ergophobe »