Author Topic: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks  (Read 2293 times)

rcjordan

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littleman

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2019, 06:58:06 AM »
That is a lot of electric trucks!  I can't see how a shipping company could truly be carbon neutral unless they are buying carbon credits.

Mackin USA

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2019, 09:51:47 AM »
hmmmm
Mr. Mackin

rcjordan

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2019, 01:58:53 PM »
> a lot of electric trucks

It pretty much confirms that Amz is going into the shipping business (and FedEx was right to dump Amz).

> dirty/clean

I agree somewhat with the long tailpipe issue, but the move to wind/solar does seem to have passed the tipping point.

US coal shipments at lowest level in 36 years
https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/egeb-us-coal-shipments-lowest-in-36-years-covering-climate-now-week/

BTW, years ago I mentioned here at TC that ships using bunker fuel were massive polluters --about equal to the pollution from cars. I scan the shipping news and some changes apparently have been mandated for 2020 as they are rushing to install scrubbers.

Cruise lines will meet IMO 2020 deadline with scrubbers
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article224596880.html


Mackin USA

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littleman

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2019, 04:25:24 PM »
hmmmm

You seem to be advocating for solar and wind power MM.  Good thing renewables are at historic lows.

ergophobe

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2019, 07:23:38 PM »
hmmmm

If you're thinking of a new vehicle purchase (as is the case here), what the actual benefit of EV vs ICE depends on where you live, how long you keep your car, and other personal decisions (data is harder to find for trucks, so I'm using cars as a proxy). If you live in Poland with a huge proportion of power coming from coal, that cartoon might be right, especially since an EV has a higher carbon footprint to produce. I think I've seen "payback" times in Poland as high as 8 years on the road before carbon breakeven (that's from memory, so needs to be checked). And the general "8 year" number is basically bunk now and will be even more bunk as the grid changes. The average number is closer to 2.4 years
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/news/a27039/tesla-battery-emissions-study-fake-news/
https://www.eia.gov/beta/international/analysis.php?iso=POL

From other reading, in places with a very low-carbon grid, the payback can be less than a year.

So, aside from basic economics (do I need a new car? can I afford a new car?), once you've decided on a new car, there are a few considerations that are especially important.

1. It depends on your local energy mix.

If you're in California, in 2018 over 51% of electricity came from low-carbon sources: 31.36% renewables, 10.68% large hydro, 9.05% nuclear. Another 34.91% is from natural gas. So at least 86% is lower carbon than burning gasoline or diesel in your own personal car.
https://ww2.energy.ca.gov/almanac/electricity_data/total_system_power.html

2. EV owners tend to opt in to other programs that reduce the footprint of their electricity.

This actually understates the situation, because electric car owners are more likely by some studies to either install rooftop solar or to opt in to programs like PGE's Solar Choice, which is 100% grid-sourced solar. Of course, at night, it's not solar. Rather, you basically buy solar credits equivalent to what you use, so you effectively are injecting extra solar into the grid displacing dirty fuels not just for yourself, but others, and then at night, you take some of that dirty fuel back.

I know for certain that the one person on my street with an EV has opted in and therefore is essentially using 100% solar to charge. This is also roughly the case for Amazon. They have committed to fueling by 100% renewables by 2030 (presumably, like Google and Apple, with credits not necessarily storage to keep running at night, though 2030 is a ways away). https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/19/amazons-climate-pledge-commits-to-net-zero-carbon-emissions-by-2040-and-100-renewables-by-2030/

3. A car purchased today will be on the road past 2030, at which point the energy mix will be quite different

The average age of a car in the US is 11.5 years. I'm guessing trucks don't stay on the road as long, but I honestly don't know, so, again, just using cars as a proxy. People are keeping cars longer and the expected lifespan of a car is now 13-17 years. So at the low end, we're looking at a car being active until 2032. By 2030, the California grid should be at least 50% renewables. If the current nuclear and hyrdo stay online, that means over 70% low-carbon, with most of the rest being natural gas. Natural gas from a plant emits 15-20% less CO2 for a given amount of energy than gasoline burned in a car. So all added up, that means that an electric car in CA in 2030 will have about 25% of the emissions of an ICE engine in the worst case and <5% in the best case.
https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/coal-and-other-fossil-fuels/environmental-impacts-of-natural-gas
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 05:01:59 PM by ergophobe »

rcjordan

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Rivian
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 01:52:16 PM »
Get used to the look of Amazon’s new electric delivery van, because they’re making 100,000 of them

https://www.fastcompany.com/90459553/get-used-to-the-look-of-amazons-new-electric-delivery-van-because-theyre-making-100000-of-them
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 01:53:50 PM by rcjordan »

Mackin USA

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ergophobe

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Re: Amazon orders 100K electric delivery trucks
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2020, 05:17:28 PM »
https://moneymorning.com/2019/09/20/should-i-buy-rivian-stock/

Rule of thumb: if a company is in the headlines for good news, do not buy the stock. All of the future upside got priced in by smart traders before you read about in the news.

Fortunately, I had hardly any money to lose when I learned that.