Author Topic: Nowhere to hide from satellites  (Read 662 times)

rcjordan

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Nowhere to hide from satellites
« on: November 16, 2021, 06:53:31 PM »
Satellites discover huge amounts of undeclared methane emissions | Space
https://www.space.com/satellites-discover-huge-undeclared-methane-emissions

Rupert

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 05:55:18 PM »
I shared that with a couple of Oil Industry (Exploration Geologists)  I know.

A bit of a "Lets put in the cat with the pigeons " :)

The response was interesting I thought.

Basically, its no surprise.....  and have a look at the north sea... you wont see much escaping there.

Also, old coal mines... loads of CH4 leaks I am told. In fact some people are apparently trying to harvest it (No citation)
And the warming permafrost.. It coming out there too as it defrosts...  ( I remember that from way back).
And that refuse dumps are using old marine engines to reuse the CH4 coming off them (No citation)

there was a daring suggestion, with a wink, to say that sewage has the same issue, (Methane production) and thats really recycled methane... Just like the oil and gas underground, but on a shorter timescale.

I would love to see if the cows are registered on these satellites.

Not being mentioned seems an omission.

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rcjordan

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 06:05:04 PM »
Ask, and thou shalt receive...

Data from the satellite helped Harvard University researchers determine that livestock emitted more methane than oil and gas did in 2004, according to a new study the first to use high-resolution satellite data to study methane emissions in the U.S.

Measuring Cow & Pig Emissions Goes to New Heights | Climate Central
https://www.climatecentral.org/news/livestock-methane-emissions-satellite-co2-17749

Rupert

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2021, 08:29:28 AM »
Oh, I wont share that with my Geologist friends :)  haha!

I was going to say I would keep eating meat, but that rather kills that argument.
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ergophobe

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 07:59:27 PM »
>>cows

This is quite controversial. Traditionally, ag has been exempted from rules on methane pollution. If that changes and we put a price on methane, it will be interesting to see what happens.

>>meat

I don't eat meat, but I do eat dairy and that's about half as bad as beef in terms of CO2 output for a given amt of nutrition (sometimes measuring calories, sometimes measuring protein). So dairy is about as bad as poultry in terms of climate if I recall.

I haven't kept up on this, but there was a study a while back saying that free-range grass-fed cattle actually produce more methane because grass is harder to break down and doesn't fatten up as quickly as the grain/hormone/whatever cocktail fed to factory farmed cattle. So it's possible (I would need to check up) that there is a cruelty/carbon tradeoff and it could get worse in terms of price if there were a price on methane. There are tradeoffs though - certain grazing regimes and livestock choices can dramatically change how much carbon gets sequestered in the soil. If I recall, native perennial prairie grasses plus bison put a fair bit of carbon into the soil because of the deep roots and narrow hooves.

I have not looked into it see how much of that is correct or what current thinking is, so take all that with several grains of salt.

Brad

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2021, 08:15:55 PM »
> bison

Bison burgers are tasty. 

Honestly, I'd like to see us tackle the industrial/commercial sources first.  You know, the guys rich enough to hire lobbyists before we start culling the cattle herds.  We have enough problems with food supply from the alleged supply chain.

ergophobe

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 05:31:35 AM »
I think the reality is you have to start with the biggest wins first, wherever they are. I don't know where that is and that's why I so strongly support a price on carbon. That would help reveal the big wins. It's not enough, but it points the way.

And in the end, it all has to get fixed. We can't get to net zero and continue to eat the same foods grown using the same old methods, especially not massive quantities of beef and raspberries flown in from Chile. Potato chips are a guilty pleasure. They often have a huge carbon footprint per calorie because they are so inefficient to ship.

Of course, the biggest carbon footprint per calorie, bar none, is bottled water and diet soda!

Rupert

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 08:33:31 AM »
Talking to someone a AG school at the moment in the UK, (Cirencester) he was telling me that they can change the cows diet to be low belch... They can also potty train them now, and separate urine and sh1t for processing.

Quote
I don't know where that is and that's why I so strongly support a price on carbon.
  I am unclear how this works, is methane considered a multiple of carbon? (In theory of carbon pricing or in actual)
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rcjordan

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2021, 01:56:47 PM »
>cows diet

"new research finds that adding seaweed to beef cow diets can reduce their methane emissions by as much as 82 percent

Seaweed-Fed Cows Burp Less Planet-Warming Methane | Smithsonian Magazine
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/seaweed-fed-cows-burp-less-planet-warming-methane-180977296/

Rupert

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2021, 02:16:59 PM »
good find :)
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rcjordan

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 04:23:03 PM »

DrCool

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 07:52:09 PM »
>>OK, so how do kangaroo steaks taste?

Hmm, might have to report back: https://www.fossilfarms.com/collections/kangaroo-meat

rcjordan

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2021, 04:15:54 PM »
catchy headline du jour:

'Cows Are the New Coal.' How the Cattle Industry Is Ignoring the Bottom Line When It Comes to Methane Emissions

To Save Itself, Meat Inc. Needs To Track Methane Emissions | Time
https://time.com/6125014/cows-agricultural-emissions/

ergophobe

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2021, 06:28:44 PM »
Quote
I don't know where that is and that's why I so strongly support a price on carbon.
  I am unclear how this works, is methane considered a multiple of carbon? (In theory of carbon pricing or in actual)

Yes. They talk in terms of CO2e = CO2 equivalents. The one thing about equivalents is that you have to decide on a time horizon. Methane is vastly more damaging in the short term, but has a shorter effective time in the atmosphere. So there are some subjective judgements (i.e. is your target date 2050 or 2040 or 2100?)

rcjordan

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Re: Nowhere to hide from satellites
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2021, 11:52:42 PM »
How satellites are challenging Australia's official greenhouse gas emission figures - ABC News
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-03/satellites-are-challenging-australias-coal-mining-industry/100663676