Author Topic: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city  (Read 2913 times)

ergophobe

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SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« on: July 03, 2023, 01:20:36 AM »
Apparently the state sets the rules, and it is looking like they will give Waymo and Cruise authority to operate 24/7 anywhere in the city, even though SF officials are trying to stop it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/07/01/san-francisco-self-driving-taxi-waymo-cruise

grnidone

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2023, 07:45:07 PM »
Is there a driver that can override things?

ergophobe

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2023, 11:59:32 PM »
I don't believe so. Thus all the stories about them getting stuck for several minutes at a complicated intersection.

rcjordan

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2023, 12:47:20 AM »
Travis did a video of Cruise in Austin --no emergency driver.

March of the robotaxis
http://th3core.com/talk/hardware-technology/march-of-the-robotaxis/

littleman

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2023, 12:54:34 AM »
Those Cruise vehicles are truly awful, they have about as much situational awareness as a blind toddler.  They'll stop when they aren't suppose to stop, go when they aren't suppose to go, and have no concept of lanes or the flow of traffic.  They enrage everybody who has to share the road with them.   Seriously, a monkey would drive better.

ergophobe

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2023, 05:30:47 PM »
I don't understand why you would do your testing in huge urban areas with horrible traffic. It seems like it would make a lot more sense to test in places that inherently have less congestion and less-challenging driving conditions.

I'm curious to see if the outcry from SF elected officials carries weight with the state.

Travoli

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2023, 09:04:47 PM »
>Is there a driver that can override things?
No, but there is a physical "end ride" button on Cruise cars.

>have about as much situational awareness as a blind toddler.
I had the opposite experience in ATX, thankfully.

>why you would do your testing in huge urban areas
SF and AUS are densely concentrated with VC's, investors, developer talent, and technophiles willing to try new technology. Also, challenging driving environments.

I do see the stories about enraged human drivers. I view robotaxis as student drivers, or chauffeurs in training. Soon they'll be better than humans. They'll help us stay active later in life. Traffic accidents and fatalities will decrease. Hopefully they'll network together and get everyone to their destination faster.

The potential upside heavily outweighs the downside, imo.

ergophobe

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2023, 09:49:39 PM »
>> Soon they'll be better than humans

I suspect they are already safer, though there have been some concerns about how well they avoid pedestrians. But in general, they tend to err on the side of stopping and cogitating rather than, say, accelerating when they see a yellow light.

As with all such things, though, until they are *much* better than humans, people will perceive them to be worse.

littleman

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2023, 07:19:29 PM »
Maybe they were testing algorithms or something, but my experience being in a car in San Francisco trying to avoid one of their cars was quite the experience.  It might be the particular environment with busy, windy and hilly roads filled with aggressive drivers that broke it.

ergophobe

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2023, 06:48:01 PM »
>> trying to avoid one of their cars

What was it doing? With generative AI, we keep seeing examples of how it "hallucinates." I wonder if the self-driving systems hallucinate and whether those cases turn them from an annoyance into a hazard.

littleman

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Re: SF to get 24/7 driveless cabs... over objections of city
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2023, 09:55:18 PM »
My first hand experience this was when they were doing development i guess.  There were always four people sitting in the car, all with masks on and staring blankly ahead, probably our of shame and wanting to avoid eye contact with angry drivers.  The car would do things like move 15mph in a 35 zone while drifting from one lane to another without signaling.  It would roll through stop sings then break in the intersection. It would accelerate, then break for no reason.  I had to swerve once to avoid an accident caused by random movements.  SF is a very hard place to drive, maybe in a place with calm drivers and a simple flat gird pattern it would have been better.

Drastic

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