Author Topic: (US) March of the Non-White Babies  (Read 7350 times)

rcjordan

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(US) March of the Non-White Babies
« on: April 10, 2015, 12:29:18 PM »
I put this in Marketing, but it is a tectonic demographic shift and will effect everything in the US to some degree.  There is no changing of the course, the feet are already on the ground.  How's your (site's) Spanish?

By 2042, there will be no racial majority in the United States.
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2014/11/march-of-the-non-white-babies/382576/

Hispanic: From minor to major
http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21645996-one-american-six-now-hispanic-up-small-minority-two-generations-ago

<added>
US Census site:
http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop3.asp
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 09:16:27 PM by rcjordan »

Gurtie

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 05:15:21 PM »
1) while there would probably be no harm in rolling out multi lingual/same country sites, given the article seems to be talking about genuine integration, and second/third generation immgrants, won't they generally be American speakers? 

2) at the risk of sounding like a (what was it that politics survey labelled me?) bleeding heart socialist unpatriotic freak? - is that really how the American press discuss ethnic diversity? It made me a bit uncomfortable to be honest. I think its the confusion between moniroty status and skin colour that does it,  I'm not totally sure but thats all I can pin down.

Interesting read though.

rcjordan

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2015, 05:47:32 PM »
>is that really how the American press discuss ethnic diversity?

It's not in general news yet.  You're seeing the fringes of my news-scraping radar.  And I think these were written to be somewhat provocative/clickbait.  (And isn't The Economist based in the UK?)  That said, I wouldn't say their tone is out of the ordinary re diversity here.

Keep in mind that we are far, far behind the EU on cultural diversity.  My region doesn't have a synagogue. Closest one is 50 miles away.  And we only had one Catholic church and that was failing ...until the Hispanic influx over the last 8 or 9 years. Now, as a result of the above demographic shift, the Catholic churches are making inroads here.

At least around here, I'm hearing PLENTY of Spanish spoken. There are construction crews where you have to speak Spanish if you want a job, menial or otherwise. I know some good ol' boy Caucasian hammer-swingers who were upset about that requirement, hhh.  So, no, we're not seeing genuine integration, not yet.

IF I were running -say-  a big, mature, general-interest travel site network, I'd be looking at doing high-quality Spanish pages (responsive -high mobile use in this target) of my best pages.  Should be relatively cheap. More content. Maybe a few brownie points with G.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 05:51:17 PM by rcjordan »

rcjordan

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2015, 06:07:44 PM »
<added>

>not in general news yet

We will start to see it surface in the 2016 elections.  The Republicans and conservative right know they have a problem.   I don't think the Hispanic bloc is large enough, or organized enough, to force a change in political ideology yet, but it could be a swing vote in -say- Florida or California.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/02/01/with-hispanics-republicans-take-a-pathway-to-peril/

littleman

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2015, 06:16:45 PM »
Many educated white (and non-white but American born) urban and suburban people are not having children.  That's a big part of what is happening.  I sort of bucked the trend in a way with four kids, but they are mixed race so I guess not really.

One thing a lot of people who do not live in America may not know is that non-Hispanic immigrants tend to move up the economic ladder fairly quickly here -- usually within one generation.

rcjordan

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2015, 06:57:52 PM »
A million years ago, we had a thread here about seeing 'uni-race' models being used in traditional advertising.  Now, every cereal box has a couple of kids that you can't peg as hispanic or mixed race, then maybe a white, asian, and/or black over on the side as backup.   They saw it coming.

ergophobe

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2015, 08:39:23 PM »
After nearly 20 years in California, my wife is learning Spanish and I feel like it's past time for me. Where we live, everyone speaks English, but go down the hill toward Fresno and by the time you hit the first major hotel outside the park, many of the rooms cleaners barely speak English. Get closer to the cities and I suspect that being able to speak Spanish is a pre-req for hotel or restaurant management.

One thing that's often pointed out is when you look at areas that are becoming majority Spanish speaking, they are the same areas that were taken from Mexico during the war. So United States took those lands in one fell swoop and culturally Mexico has been slowly taking them back.

The map in The Economist article shows it really well (And Gurtie - as RC pointed out, The Economist is a British rag).

>>they are mixed race so I guess not really

So based on the articles linked, they actually belong the fastest growing classification. So you are on the forefront of the trend it would seem. No kids here, but a mixed race marriage, so I guess I'm on the cutting edge too


>>Keep in mind that we are far, far behind the EU on cultural diversity.

How so? I would be curious what the actual numbers are (or for that matter, what number is the right one to measure)

I get what you're saying - Emile Cioran predicted some years back that in a hundred years or so Notre Dame will be a mosque. But I remember a BBC reporter saying early in the Iraq war that there were two simple ways to tell British soldiers from Americans.

1. Americans are the ones with sunglasses.
2. Americans are the ones who aren't 100% white.

The degree of diversity depends a lot on where you are both within the US and within the EU. I remember a European friend visiting me and asking me to explain a sign to him that he saw on BART. I told him that was the phone company ad and those were the twelve (yes 12) different phone numbers for twelve (yes 12) different languages you could call to set up phone service. He was amazed and also blown away to realize there were only three "European" languages - English, Spanish and Portuguese - and none of those were there out of concern for Europeans. It was like his vision of the world expanded in one fell swoop and he saw there was this whole huge teeming world of migration that had nothing to do with German guys coming to United States to get PhDs. Granted, this was 15 years ago and Europe is changing fast.

I remember another similar conversation with a Euro where I said that something or other was only available in a few major languages. He said "Oh so just English, French, and German, like that?" And I explained, no English, Spanish, Tagalog, Cantonese and Mandarin. His jaw dropped.

There's nothing *near* me, but if I drive far enough to see a Home Depot or a Best Buy, I'll see mosques, Sihk temples and, of course a zillion evangelical churches within 20 miles of the closest Home Depot.

>>not in general news yet

Again, this may be regional. In California, where some counties are already over 50% Spanish-speaking, I'd say it's been a topic of note for many years. But I grew up in what at the time at least was the whitest state in the Union (Vermont) and changing demographics of America was not really a topic (maybe it is now, I don't know).

>>Republicans and conservative right know they have a problem

We're going to hear about the demographics of party affiliation until we can't stand it anymore this cylce.

littleman

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2015, 07:37:58 AM »
I think you make good points Ergophobe, maybe some of the difference is regional, California vs. other parts of the country.  I haven't really been in the true South, just Florida, but I been in the mid-West and it does seem much more Black & White there -- though it does seem like most parts of the country has a rise in their Hispanic population.

I think there are different types of multiculturalism.  From what I've seen we (at least on the West Coast) seem to do a fair job of economic integration, with new immigrants becoming professionals.  Though, I don't think this applies to the new Hispanic immigrants overall, unlike the immigrants from Asia and the Middle East.  Europe seems to be more multi-lingual by nature, but also much harsher environment for non-natives.  Here you are an American if you are born here, both legally and culturally people will accept you as an American too.  This may not be the case across the country, but it definitely seems that way on the West coast.  That's not to say that racism or monoculturalism or nepotism don't exist, they do, but they are not powerful enough to stop people.


Gurtie

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2015, 03:54:30 PM »
sorry - didn't mean my original comment to come across sounding prissy - the ecnomist article doesn't ake me feel as icky but I wouldn't claim the UK press is better - in fact thinking about it there probably are articles in an equally disturbing tone of voice, I just tend to avoid them. 

We have plenty of issues with integration and immegration, although I believe (hope) that a lot of that is the press stirring things up - the difference is really that with the exception of some clearly racist remarks most of this isn't couched in terms of colour in the UK - and yes thats in part because a lot of immigration to here comes from the EU countries and they "look like us". 

Mackin USA

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2015, 03:59:10 PM »
"non-Hispanic immigrants tend to move up the economic ladder fairly quickly here -- usually within one generation." That is so true!

Even Hispanics do not vote as a block.

African Americans seem to vote for MORE STUFF but not necessarily as a block. Did that sound racist?

I just never got that gal and her Obama Phone out of my head.

I think of myself as a minority now and have for years. I'm OK with that :-)

PS: I don't like French MFs  :o
Mr. Mackin

Brad

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2015, 06:12:53 PM »
We Americans are way too obsessed with what we call race.  A lot of the friction isn't race but rather social/economic class and cultural and sub-cultural differences jostling each other.

But no culture encounters another without being changed by the experience.

Most conversations about race in America don't end well.

ergophobe

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2015, 04:08:25 PM »
>>Most conversations about race in America don't end well.

Perhaps most "public" conversations, but that can't be true of private conversations, otherwise Littleman and I would not be part of the fastest growing demographic in America (mixed race marriages and children).

As with so many things, I think there's a lot more noise in the public debate driven, of course, by real events (Ferguson, undocumented aliens, Boston Marathon bombings, hate crimes against Muslims, etc). It's one of the reason why it's so important for people to actually mix and the foster conditions that lead to that. It's an argument in favor of the draft, by the way, since in the US the military was one of the first parts of society to integrate on a truly national level, Deep South included. It's and argument the Swiss make frequently for universal conscription - it's the one "national" experience that is universal across French, German and Italian sectors.

And by the way, "race" is an incredibly fluid term. At one time, it would have been normal to see French, German and Italian as races, but now we see them as ethnic groups within an overarching white race. What's the old line about "When did Jews become white?" In America there is a similar and previous dynamic with Irish and Italian. At some point they became "white" just like Protestants of English and German origin.

Biologically speaking, there is no such thing as race. The genetic diversity within Africa is much greater than the average genetic difference between an African and a European.

grnidone

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2015, 06:14:20 PM »
Interestingly, way back when I was at Nokia, we looked into putting Spanish onto the site.  However, we found that because children of Spanish speaking immigrants went to English speaking schools, they actually preferred having English.

Which really surprised me. 

rcjordan

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2015, 09:42:19 PM »
Jeb Bush goes for the gold

"said he personally supported statehood for Puerto Rico"

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/jeb-bush-leaves-path-citizenship-out-puerto-rico-speech-n349841

martinibuster

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Re: (US) March of the Non-White Babies
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2015, 05:19:37 PM »
Around twelve years ago that MexGrocer guy with that humiliating name "Nacho" (Hispanic version of Buckwheat?) was promoting the idea to big brands that they should market to Hispanics. My limited personal experience and watching the experience of someone who was deep into marketing to Hispanics gave me a negative view of that. I did a little research at that time and found a survey that showed that Spanish speaking households at the time spent their money on things like diapers and home cleaning products. I suspect the same is fairly true today.

I think the important shift is a matter of skin and hair color, more than language.

Language
My opinion is the melting pot will strike again. English is the language of money in the USA, thus Hispanic and Asian kids are going to slip out of their parent's native languages like I did and most of your forbears did as well.

Skin color
Language aside, I'm all for imagery reflecting the reality of skin colors in the USA. I was reading a book by Terry Pratchett to my kid the other night and the heroine was lamenting how the fairy tale heroes are consistently blondes. That kind of crap can screw with a person's head, regardless of skin color. Personally I find it ridiculous to watch or read anything that is painted in unrealistic shades. So maybe it's not the language but the skin color and body shapes that need to be more accurate.

Jeb Bush is married to a Mexican woman who was born in Mexico. That Bush dynasty thing is going to continue. Have you seen these guys? They're the hunkiest politicians since Kennedy.

George Prescott Bush



« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 05:22:34 PM by martinibuster »