The Core
Why We Are Here => Marketing => Topic started by: rcjordan on April 10, 2015, 12:29:18 PM
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I put this in Marketing, but it is a tectonic demographic shift and will effect everything in the US to some degree. There is no changing of the course, the feet are already on the ground. How's your (site's) Spanish?
By 2042, there will be no racial majority in the United States.
http://www.citylab.com/housing/2014/11/march-of-the-non-white-babies/382576/
Hispanic: From minor to major
http://www.economist.com/news/special-report/21645996-one-american-six-now-hispanic-up-small-minority-two-generations-ago
<added>
US Census site:
http://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop3.asp
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1) while there would probably be no harm in rolling out multi lingual/same country sites, given the article seems to be talking about genuine integration, and second/third generation immgrants, won't they generally be American speakers?
2) at the risk of sounding like a (what was it that politics survey labelled me?) bleeding heart socialist unpatriotic freak? - is that really how the American press discuss ethnic diversity? It made me a bit uncomfortable to be honest. I think its the confusion between moniroty status and skin colour that does it, I'm not totally sure but thats all I can pin down.
Interesting read though.
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>is that really how the American press discuss ethnic diversity?
It's not in general news yet. You're seeing the fringes of my news-scraping radar. And I think these were written to be somewhat provocative/clickbait. (And isn't The Economist based in the UK?) That said, I wouldn't say their tone is out of the ordinary re diversity here.
Keep in mind that we are far, far behind the EU on cultural diversity. My region doesn't have a synagogue. Closest one is 50 miles away. And we only had one Catholic church and that was failing ...until the Hispanic influx over the last 8 or 9 years. Now, as a result of the above demographic shift, the Catholic churches are making inroads here.
At least around here, I'm hearing PLENTY of Spanish spoken. There are construction crews where you have to speak Spanish if you want a job, menial or otherwise. I know some good ol' boy Caucasian hammer-swingers who were upset about that requirement, hhh. So, no, we're not seeing genuine integration, not yet.
IF I were running -say- a big, mature, general-interest travel site network, I'd be looking at doing high-quality Spanish pages (responsive -high mobile use in this target) of my best pages. Should be relatively cheap. More content. Maybe a few brownie points with G.
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<added>
>not in general news yet
We will start to see it surface in the 2016 elections. The Republicans and conservative right know they have a problem. I don't think the Hispanic bloc is large enough, or organized enough, to force a change in political ideology yet, but it could be a swing vote in -say- Florida or California.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/02/01/with-hispanics-republicans-take-a-pathway-to-peril/
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Many educated white (and non-white but American born) urban and suburban people are not having children. That's a big part of what is happening. I sort of bucked the trend in a way with four kids, but they are mixed race so I guess not really.
One thing a lot of people who do not live in America may not know is that non-Hispanic immigrants tend to move up the economic ladder fairly quickly here -- usually within one generation.
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A million years ago, we had a thread here about seeing 'uni-race' models being used in traditional advertising. Now, every cereal box has a couple of kids that you can't peg as hispanic or mixed race, then maybe a white, asian, and/or black over on the side as backup. They saw it coming.
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After nearly 20 years in California, my wife is learning Spanish and I feel like it's past time for me. Where we live, everyone speaks English, but go down the hill toward Fresno and by the time you hit the first major hotel outside the park, many of the rooms cleaners barely speak English. Get closer to the cities and I suspect that being able to speak Spanish is a pre-req for hotel or restaurant management.
One thing that's often pointed out is when you look at areas that are becoming majority Spanish speaking, they are the same areas that were taken from Mexico during the war. So United States took those lands in one fell swoop and culturally Mexico has been slowly taking them back.
The map in The Economist article shows it really well (And Gurtie - as RC pointed out, The Economist is a British rag).
>>they are mixed race so I guess not really
So based on the articles linked, they actually belong the fastest growing classification. So you are on the forefront of the trend it would seem. No kids here, but a mixed race marriage, so I guess I'm on the cutting edge too
>>Keep in mind that we are far, far behind the EU on cultural diversity.
How so? I would be curious what the actual numbers are (or for that matter, what number is the right one to measure)
I get what you're saying - Emile Cioran predicted some years back that in a hundred years or so Notre Dame will be a mosque. But I remember a BBC reporter saying early in the Iraq war that there were two simple ways to tell British soldiers from Americans.
1. Americans are the ones with sunglasses.
2. Americans are the ones who aren't 100% white.
The degree of diversity depends a lot on where you are both within the US and within the EU. I remember a European friend visiting me and asking me to explain a sign to him that he saw on BART. I told him that was the phone company ad and those were the twelve (yes 12) different phone numbers for twelve (yes 12) different languages you could call to set up phone service. He was amazed and also blown away to realize there were only three "European" languages - English, Spanish and Portuguese - and none of those were there out of concern for Europeans. It was like his vision of the world expanded in one fell swoop and he saw there was this whole huge teeming world of migration that had nothing to do with German guys coming to United States to get PhDs. Granted, this was 15 years ago and Europe is changing fast.
I remember another similar conversation with a Euro where I said that something or other was only available in a few major languages. He said "Oh so just English, French, and German, like that?" And I explained, no English, Spanish, Tagalog, Cantonese and Mandarin. His jaw dropped.
There's nothing *near* me, but if I drive far enough to see a Home Depot or a Best Buy, I'll see mosques, Sihk temples and, of course a zillion evangelical churches within 20 miles of the closest Home Depot.
>>not in general news yet
Again, this may be regional. In California, where some counties are already over 50% Spanish-speaking, I'd say it's been a topic of note for many years. But I grew up in what at the time at least was the whitest state in the Union (Vermont) and changing demographics of America was not really a topic (maybe it is now, I don't know).
>>Republicans and conservative right know they have a problem
We're going to hear about the demographics of party affiliation until we can't stand it anymore this cylce.
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I think you make good points Ergophobe, maybe some of the difference is regional, California vs. other parts of the country. I haven't really been in the true South, just Florida, but I been in the mid-West and it does seem much more Black & White there -- though it does seem like most parts of the country has a rise in their Hispanic population.
I think there are different types of multiculturalism. From what I've seen we (at least on the West Coast) seem to do a fair job of economic integration, with new immigrants becoming professionals. Though, I don't think this applies to the new Hispanic immigrants overall, unlike the immigrants from Asia and the Middle East. Europe seems to be more multi-lingual by nature, but also much harsher environment for non-natives. Here you are an American if you are born here, both legally and culturally people will accept you as an American too. This may not be the case across the country, but it definitely seems that way on the West coast. That's not to say that racism or monoculturalism or nepotism don't exist, they do, but they are not powerful enough to stop people.
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sorry - didn't mean my original comment to come across sounding prissy - the ecnomist article doesn't ake me feel as icky but I wouldn't claim the UK press is better - in fact thinking about it there probably are articles in an equally disturbing tone of voice, I just tend to avoid them.
We have plenty of issues with integration and immegration, although I believe (hope) that a lot of that is the press stirring things up - the difference is really that with the exception of some clearly racist remarks most of this isn't couched in terms of colour in the UK - and yes thats in part because a lot of immigration to here comes from the EU countries and they "look like us".
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"non-Hispanic immigrants tend to move up the economic ladder fairly quickly here -- usually within one generation." That is so true!
Even Hispanics do not vote as a block.
African Americans seem to vote for MORE STUFF but not necessarily as a block. Did that sound racist?
I just never got that gal and her Obama Phone out of my head.
I think of myself as a minority now and have for years. I'm OK with that :-)
PS: I don't like French MFs :o
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We Americans are way too obsessed with what we call race. A lot of the friction isn't race but rather social/economic class and cultural and sub-cultural differences jostling each other.
But no culture encounters another without being changed by the experience.
Most conversations about race in America don't end well.
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>>Most conversations about race in America don't end well.
Perhaps most "public" conversations, but that can't be true of private conversations, otherwise Littleman and I would not be part of the fastest growing demographic in America (mixed race marriages and children).
As with so many things, I think there's a lot more noise in the public debate driven, of course, by real events (Ferguson, undocumented aliens, Boston Marathon bombings, hate crimes against Muslims, etc). It's one of the reason why it's so important for people to actually mix and the foster conditions that lead to that. It's an argument in favor of the draft, by the way, since in the US the military was one of the first parts of society to integrate on a truly national level, Deep South included. It's and argument the Swiss make frequently for universal conscription - it's the one "national" experience that is universal across French, German and Italian sectors.
And by the way, "race" is an incredibly fluid term. At one time, it would have been normal to see French, German and Italian as races, but now we see them as ethnic groups within an overarching white race. What's the old line about "When did Jews become white?" In America there is a similar and previous dynamic with Irish and Italian. At some point they became "white" just like Protestants of English and German origin.
Biologically speaking, there is no such thing as race. The genetic diversity within Africa is much greater than the average genetic difference between an African and a European.
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Interestingly, way back when I was at Nokia, we looked into putting Spanish onto the site. However, we found that because children of Spanish speaking immigrants went to English speaking schools, they actually preferred having English.
Which really surprised me.
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Jeb Bush goes for the gold
"said he personally supported statehood for Puerto Rico"
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/jeb-bush-leaves-path-citizenship-out-puerto-rico-speech-n349841
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Around twelve years ago that MexGrocer guy with that humiliating name "Nacho" (Hispanic version of Buckwheat?) was promoting the idea to big brands that they should market to Hispanics. My limited personal experience and watching the experience of someone who was deep into marketing to Hispanics gave me a negative view of that. I did a little research at that time and found a survey that showed that Spanish speaking households at the time spent their money on things like diapers and home cleaning products. I suspect the same is fairly true today.
I think the important shift is a matter of skin and hair color, more than language.
Language
My opinion is the melting pot will strike again. English is the language of money in the USA, thus Hispanic and Asian kids are going to slip out of their parent's native languages like I did and most of your forbears did as well.
Skin color
Language aside, I'm all for imagery reflecting the reality of skin colors in the USA. I was reading a book by Terry Pratchett to my kid the other night and the heroine was lamenting how the fairy tale heroes are consistently blondes. That kind of crap can screw with a person's head, regardless of skin color. Personally I find it ridiculous to watch or read anything that is painted in unrealistic shades. So maybe it's not the language but the skin color and body shapes that need to be more accurate.
Jeb Bush is married to a Mexican woman who was born in Mexico. That Bush dynasty thing is going to continue. Have you seen these guys? They're the hunkiest politicians since Kennedy.
George Prescott Bush
(http://images.wjla.com/politics/george_p_bush_-_ap_606.png)
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>body shapes
I don't mean to derail the conversation, but that's a whole topic onto itself. It seems almost schizophrenic to me the way we are represented in the media vs. what is the reality on the street.
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Millennials overtake baby boomers; minority babies outnumber white – Census
http://rt.com/usa/269830-millenials-baby-boomers-population/
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[update]
White fear of demographic change is a powerful psychological force
http://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/1/26/14340542/white-fear-trump-psychology-minority-majority
a.k.a. 'whitelash'
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A few months ago, my Dad said something interesting:
"If you want someone to do the job, get a Mexican."
My sister replied,"DAD!"
Dad replied,"What? They're the only ones who actually ~want~ to work."
He is frustrated at the younger generation who doesn't want to get their hands dirty.
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Very few manual labor jobs pay enough to sustain a family and that number is going to keep going down.
Re the Vox article: Much of this fear of the unknown. I think it would be telling to see how white people vote (and what they believe) in areas with ethnic diversity vs. places where there isn't. Exposure makes a difference, the example that pops up in my head is Bobby Jindal, he's brown, of Indian descent, but reflects local values and that was enough to get him elected governor in a very conservative state.
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[update/related]
"Much of this change was apparent a few years ago, but opinions continue to shift in a slightly more left-leaning direction," Gallup's Jeffrey M. Jones wrote. "It would appear that US opinions will continue on this path, as younger, more liberal generations replace older, more conservative ones in the US population."
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/poll-more-americans-than-ever-down-with-porn-divorce-sex
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Pew Research:
Millennials are more than 40% nonwhite, the highest share of any adult generation; by contrast, Silents (and older adults) are 79% white.
http://www.people-press.org/2018/03/01/the-generation-gap-in-american-politics/
Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/03/02/republicans-should-have-fomo-about-millennials.html
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I guess Gen Xers are too small to pay attention to.
>Fox
There has been a shift in values from Boomers to Millennials and it isn't going to morph back to the Right as that generation ages.
The article also argues that people tend to be more liberal in their youth and then conservative as they get older. Honestly, I think that's a Boomer thing mostly.
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100-150 years ago Americans were worried about the non-Protestant immigrants destroying America's identity.
Today we're celebrating things like Saint Patrick's day and America's favorite meals are pizza, spaghetti, bagels and hot dogs. All courtesy of those who believe in the Catholic and the Jewish faiths.
YET, we still speak English and the first wave of immigrants identify as Americans- while still clinging to cultural touchstones to varying degrees. The traditions and food and language are absorbed.
I'm an American, born and raised. Today I purchased British & Eastern European sausages, cooked Italian food for lunch and cooked a Chinese meal for dinner the night before. That's America.
That whole thing about the Melting Pot was right. The ingredients remain in one form or another but it comes to define what America is at any given century.
The same will happen to the current immigrants as what was formerly THEIR culture becomes American culture.
Change. Can we get used to it already?
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Major OLD thread
https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-american-political-dynasties.htm
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What MB said. It's all part of the assimilation process.
Early America Conversation.
Immigrants to Anglos : So what do you do for food here?
Anglos: Well mostly we boil it. A lot.
Italians, Poles, East Indians, Mexicans etc, all look at each other, say: Right, you Anglos go set at the table and leave the cooking to us.
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tick tock
Texas set to send its first Latinas to the Congress
Texas’ population is about 40 percent Hispanic.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-hispanics/texas-set-to-send-its-first-latinas-to-the-congress-idUSKCN1GJ2LR
<meanwhile>
Puerto Rico’s Mass Migration Is Reshaping Florida
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-13/beyond-disney-world-a-new-florida-takes-shape-in-wake-of-maria
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Overhyped media narratives about America’s fading white majority fuel anxiety
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/5/2/17305402/majority-minority-demographic-forecast
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"And a new study from Dowell Myers and Morris Levy, a demographer and a political scientist at USC, respectively, suggests that the media’s choices about how to characterize it make a real difference to people’s political response to these demographic trends."
Like it or Not, Facebook Is Now a Media Company
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Residents in southwest Kansas are starting to speak with a distinct, new accent as the Latino population continues to grow
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article213100119.html
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White deaths exceed white births in the majority of US states, study finds
https://twitter.com/i/moments/1009758706408542208?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
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White America is quietly self-segregating
https://www.vox.com/2017/1/18/14296126/white-segregated-suburb-neighborhood-cartoon
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White America is quietly self-segregating
https://www.vox.com/2017/1/18/14296126/white-segregated-suburb-neighborhood-cartoon
No comment:
And more than half of white Americans believe the country's "way of life" needs to be protected against foreign influences. About 84 percent of Trump supporters feel that way.
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We have been here before.
http://www.loc.gov/teachers/classroommaterials/presentationsandactivities/presentations/immigration/italian8.html
Labor struggles were not the only conflicts Italian immigrants faced. During the years of the great Italian immigration, they also had to confront a wave of virulent prejudice and nativist hostility.
As immigration from Europe and Asia neared its crest in the late 19th century, anti-immigrant sentiment soared along with it. The U.S. was in the grips of an economic depression, and immigrants were blamed for taking American jobs. At the same time, racialist theories circulated in the press, advancing pseudo scientific theories that alleged that “Mediterranean” types were inherently inferior to people of northern European heritage. Drawings and songs caricaturing the new immigrants as childlike, criminal, or subhuman became sadly commonplace. One 1891 cartoon claimed that “If immigration was properly restricted, you would never be troubled with anarchism, socialism, the Mafia and such kindred evils!”
Attacks on Italians were not limited to the printed page, however. From the late 1880s, anti-immigrant societies sprang up around the country, and the Ku Klux Klan saw a spike in membership. Catholic churches and charities were vandalized and burned, and Italians attacked by mobs. In the 1890s alone, more than 20 Italians were lynched.
One of the bloodiest episodes took place in New Orleans in 1891. When the chief of police was found shot to death on the street one night, the mayor blamed “Sicilian gangsters” and rounded up more than 100 Sicilian Americans. Eventually, 19 were put on trial and, as the nation’s Italian Americans watched nervously, were found not guilty for lack of evidence. Before they could be freed, however, a mob of 10,000 people, including many of New Orleans’ most prominent citizens, broke into the jail. They dragged 11 Sicilians from their cells and lynched them, including two men jailed on other offenses. Italians worldwide were outraged, but the U.S. press generally approved of the action. It was the largest single mass lynching in U.S. history.
The concept of what is "white" is fluid.
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People are self segregating. In America some is by race and some of what we think is by race is really about cultures and subcultures or a combination of race and cultures.
In 1900 American cities had their German town, Greek town, China town districts. You had Irish, Italian, Polish, Black neighborhoods. In a city near me the Serbs and Croats lived in different ends of town. They all worked together in the mills and got on just fine, but they didn't live next to each other. The Poles were the buffer between them.
Cuban Americans, Mexican Americans, other Hispanic Americans don't live together unless there are so few of them that they have to. Because it has to be scary whether you were a German in 1850 or a Cuban in 1959 coming to a huge place with different culture and language. You tend to seek out your own people.
The culture stuff all breaks down in a few generations. Race takes longer but we see that finally breaking down too.
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We have been here before.
I was listening to an interesting interview by the author of a book on immigration history. He made the point that these great anti-immigrant paroxysms typically come when the number of foreign-born people living in the US reaches a given percentage. If I recall, it was around 20-22%. Then there's a crackdown, borders tighten, it drops 5% over the course of a generation, and then people get more comfortable with the idea.
And in the meantime, while everyone settled in, Italians, Irish and Jews became "white" because...
The concept of what is "white" is fluid.
Asians are still waiting their turn.
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As U.S. fertility rates collapse, finger-pointing and blame follow - The Washington Post
"William H. Frey, a demographer with the Brookings Institution, said that what struck him about the new report is the figures on Hispanic women, who have traditionally had high fertility rates. From 2007 to 2017, Hispanic women experienced a 26 percent drop in fertility rates in rural areas, a 29 percent drop in smaller metro areas and a 30 percent decline in large metro areas.
He said the fertility rates for Hispanic women in urban areas are now below the 'replacement rate' of 2.1 children per woman, which would keep the population stable."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2018/10/19/us-fertility-rates-collapse-finger-pointing-blame-follow/
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>finger-pointing and blame
#1 internet porn*
#2 high cost of living
*It is acting like a substitute for the real thing, Millennials are having less sex than anyone has in generations.
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They drive caws in Boston.
Has something to do with the 17th century brits.
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#2 high cost of living
massive money printing that flowed into juicing financial asset prices & the cost of living while offshoring, automation & semi-formal jobs destroy the ability of labor to keep up with inflation almost guaranteed large segments of the population would go on the doll rather than struggle to try to make the numbers work. the opioid epidemic is all about a lack of hope.
there are unemployed people who are on disability for being drug abusers who while not having a job have no time for exercise either & then are getting weight loss surgeries & other such benies. then the cost of that stuff (along with the endless middle east wars) gets rolled across to productive members of society either through inflation or taxes. and then the self-employed person paying a grand a month or more for a garbage health insurance policy they don't even want is heavily squeezed.
The primary roll of Obamacare was a wealth transfer scheme from young & healthier people to older & unhealthy people. The problem is many of those young people came into the labor force after it was horribly damaged from the recession (lower incomes) AND more part time gig jobs (no benefits / the health insurance costs are out of pocket AND are carrying student loan debt (higher costs) AND now find asset prices priced nearly for perfection (a second subsidy to older & wealthier people further up the career, income & savings ladder).
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A record 43 Latinos elected to Congress are set to take the oath of office in January, including the youngest woman ever elected, two Latinas from Texas, the first Latino to represent Ohio and a woman born in Ecuador.
Their numbers growing, Latinos gain clout in new Congress | Boston.com
https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2018/12/14/their-numbers-growing-latinos-gain-clout-in-new-congress
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Historic Latino student wave reshapes many colleges. But access is uneven. - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/historic-latino-student-wave-reshapes-many-colleges-but-access-is-uneven/2018/12/17/86cc113c-c65e-11e8-b1ed-1d2d65b86d0c_story.html
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tick-tock
2020 calendar increases Hispanic voting clout - Axios
https://www.axios.com/2020-calendar-increases-hispanic-voting-clout-74c2c1ab-b00a-439a-8017-9848267df430.html#
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Hispanic-American voter participation rates spiked 50% during midterms
No doubt a reaction to the current administration. Florida, Texas & Arizona will be very interesting to watch in 2020.
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Well. that didn't take very long. 1st post in this thread was only 4 years ago.
Hispanics Become Largest Voting-Eligible Minority Group at 32 Million | National Review
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/hispanics-become-largest-voting-eligible-minority-group/
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tick-tock
Census shows white decline, nonwhite majority among youngest
https://apnews.com/a3600edf620ccf2759080d00f154c069
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Reminds me of the lyric the Woody Guthrie lyric from "She Came Along to Me" (it's one of the thousands of song lyrics he left behind, written in 1939-1967, but when nobody knows. Recorded in 1998 by Billy Bragg). Anyway, this topic always makes me think of this lyric:
And all creeds and kinds and colors
Of us are blending
Till I suppose ten million years from now
We'll all be just alike
Same color, same size, working together
And maybe we'll have all of the fascists
Out of the way by then
Maybe so
The scary part of that article, though, is the idea that 20% of Americans will be seniors (and thus on Medicare and Social Security) but 2030. At a certain point, the youngsters may just have a enough voting clout to decide that we can't keep spending all their money and cut us older people off.
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US Census to show first decline of white population
https://www.axios.com/census-white-population-decline-demographics-us-a1082ae3-7c94-4b03-b378-2381efd167d4.html
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2020 census finds U.S. is more diverse than ever as white, rural America shrinks
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/census-shows-u-s-diversifying-white-population-shrinking-n1276677
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More than 400 U.S. counties are now minority white
https://graphics.axios.com/2021-08-13-share-white-by-county/index.html#amp=1
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I hesitate to post this, but it's kind of interesting in light of this thread
In a recent article, Barton Gellman interviews a researcher who looked for every correlation he could find among those who took part in the "event" at the Capitol last January: income, education, etc. It turns out that the insurrectionists tended to come from non-rural areas and from areas that had gone for Biden rather than Trump, but these were fairly weak correlations.
Only one meaningful correlation emerged. Other things being equal, insurgents were much more likely to come from a county where the white share of the population was in decline. For every one-point drop in a county’s percentage of non-Hispanic whites from 2015 to 2019, the likelihood of an insurgent hailing from that county increased by 25 percent. This was a strong link, and it held up in every state.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/01/january-6-insurrection-trump-coup-2024-election/620843/
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> For every one-point drop in a county’s percentage of non-Hispanic whites
Nice find. When I was working on my motor homes and spending a fair amount of time around Orlando in a section of the city that was flashing over to hispanics, I heard plenty of white flight and/or disgruntled chatter from the white workers there. One or two actually moved away.
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Please buckle your seat belts and prepare for turbulence.
> For every one-point drop in a county’s percentage of non-Hispanic whites
"The U.S. Hispanic population reached 62.1 million in 2020, an increase of 23% over the previous decade that outpaced the nation’s 7% overall population growth. "
U.S. Hispanic population continued its geographic spread in the 2010s | Pew Research Center
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/02/03/u-s-hispanic-population-continued-its-geographic-spread-in-the-2010s/
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Over 1 in 4 Americans will be Latino by 2060, census projects
"Hispanics are now 19.1% of the U.S. population but are projected to make up 26.9% of the population in less than four decades. Meanwhile, the non-Hispanic white population is projected to continue to decline from 58.9% now to 44.9% by 2060. "
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/1-4-americans-will-latino-2060-census-projects-rcna124244
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The "Hispanic = non-White" is such an arbitrary distinction. There are many people from Latin America who are mixed ancestry, but there are also many who have European roots. Antonio Banderas (born in Spain) was labeled a "person of color" recently. From what I can tell this seems to be a distinctly USA based illogic and it is very silly.
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>Hispanic
Always found that strange (as a Scot) as it does seem to be a North America thing. From my little pov Spanish are European and ergo 'caucasian'.
I'd leap the guess it's more to do with the legacy of the Spanish empire and Protestantism, and all the politics around that, from them til now.
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>>The "Hispanic = non-White" is such an arbitrary distinction.
All racial distinctions are fundamentally arbitrary. From a genetic point of view, there is more variation among individuals within a race than average variation between races. The exception is certain central African people (often called "Bushmen" but that's a deprecated term). They descend from peoples who were less affected by the genetic bottleneck that most of the rest of us descend from (so they actually have more genetic diversity in their small population than the whole rest of humanity combined).
>>North America thing
In the particulars, yes. In general, though, most of these ideas are a legacy of colonialism in one way or another. I think most scholars agree with Hannah Arendt's classic Origins of Totalitarianism that racism and anti-semitism as we know them are mostly 19th-century inventions. Yes, people hated each other based on ethnic and national differences since humans have been humans, but the doctrine of race is quite modern. For example, in the 17th and early 18th centuries, Africa slaves who were brought to America were identified by nation and ethnicity. It was only after a major slave uprising where African slaves and poor whites rose up together against the plantation system that this shifted radically. By the late 18th century, manifests just listed African slaves as Black, because that was all that mattered.
It was also why the Southern states pushed hard for the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. The well-regulated militia were intended to be ready to put down uprisings.
But the same general dynamic happened in every colonial region whether American, British, Dutch, German, French.
In the US, the "one drop" doctrine indicates also how arbitrary this is. By that doctrine, codified as law in several states prior to the 1960s, it stated that one drop of black blood made someone black. So someone who has 15 white great grandparents and 1 black great grandparent was legally black. That's how arbitrary these things are. The Nazis sent respresentatives to both the US and South Africa to study this when developing their Jewish policies.
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>the "one drop" doctrine
That makes so much sense given the conversations I've had with my NA Native Mrs. The reserves have their own new bunch of rules about blood quantum as per CA/US laws.
Conversations over here about Meghan Markle which I didn't care for much talked about this, to me she was of European descent but my Mrs would call her 'non white' as if in the frame of potential discrimination, which she probably would be given her position. I'd have never put her in that position (as in, I wouldn't see why other people would see it as a thing).
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https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinos-make-half-growth-new-eligible-voters-rcna133346
Latinos make up half of growth in new eligible voters