The Core
Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: rcjordan on October 05, 2015, 11:29:13 PM
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"Brown, a lifelong Catholic and former Jesuit seminarian, announced he signed the legislation after thoroughly considering all opinions and discussing the issue with many people, including a Catholic bishop and two of Brown's doctors."
"I do not know what I would do if I were dying in prolonged and excruciating pain. I am certain, however, that it would be a comfort to be able to consider the options afforded by this bill."
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/California-Governor-Signs-Right-To-Die-Legislation--330745292.html
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This is a good thing.
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Australian scientist and right-to-die advocate David Goodall chose to end his life with a lethal injection on Thursday. He was 104.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/right-to-die-advocate-david-goodall-ends-life-listening-to-ode-to-joy_us_5af48316e4b00d7e4c1886c0
Note the slight twist in terms & presentation; "right-to-die" versus "assisted suicide"
'This is taking an awfully long time!', says scientist before assisted suicide
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-swiss-euthanasia-goodall/this-is-taking-an-awfully-long-time-says-scientist-before-assisted-suicide-idUSKBN1IB2A7
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New Jersey law allows terminally ill to get life-ending meds | Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-law-allows-terminally-ill-to-get-life-ending-meds
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"In addition to California and Oregon, Colorado, Hawaii, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia all have similar legislation. Montana does not have a law permitting medically assisted suicide for the terminally ill. However, a 2009 Montana Supreme Court ruling determined that nothing in state law prevented a physician from prescribing such a drug to terminally ill person."
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This one is sort of like legalized pot, it is going to eventually be law in all 50 states but it may take a generation or two.
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This was locked for some reason.
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N.J. will let terminally ill patients decide when it’s time to die, beginning Thursday (https://www.nj.com/healthfit/2019/07/nj-will-let-terminally-patients-decide-when-its-time-to-die-beginning-thursday.html)
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I honestly have mixed feelings about right to die laws.
I really, really, really want this option if I'm in a terminal situation and physically unable to just go jump off a cliff (and now that I know the people who clean up after someone jumps off a cliff, I realize it is not a kind thing to do).
On the other hand, I do worry about a society that sanctions killing people for illness - is it a slippery slope?
On the third hand, medical technology has gotten so good at postponing death (I do not say "prolonging life") that we have made end of life cruel beyond our forefathers' imaginations and this seems to redress that imbalance some.
I wonder what some of the more religious people in the forum think about this.
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>>some of the more religious people in the forum think about this
OK, here it goes. Our pastor gave a GREAT sermon on this topic a few years back so I don't remember all the particulars but it came down to the sanctity of life. Of course all life is terminal so everyone will die at some point. If there is a terminal disease and a bunch of treatment will extend life for a few more months I don't think it is wrong to refuse the treatment and end things faster. But I don't think there is a Biblical option for knowingly ending your life. So there is no mandate to necessarily artificially extend life but there is no room for artificially ending it either.
I don't know all the particulars about these laws but defining "terminal" is so difficult. The example of the lady in that NJ article is a great case. She is only 56 and it seems like she still has a number of years where she will be mentally capable of living a "good" life. Is being confined to a wheelchair and needing oxygen enough to warrant ending her life? I don't think so but I am sure there would be a doctor somewhere that would say yes. There are too many "what ifs" to make laws like this good.
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Four people I was close to died in the last six months. I was up close and personal with two during their process of dying. The natural path can be brutal. While visiting my Uncle I asked him if there was anything I could do for him and he said "shoot me in the head". If it were legal I would have done it. I understand religious conviction keeping people from wanting to bypass the final days, and for those getting semi-comatose on morphine is an option, yet often a lot is lost in that process, freedom, dignity and self.
I think the standard of terminal to use is the one that hospice usually use, six months or less.
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Thanks. You two encapsulate the conflict I feel personally, as I mentioned in my previous post.
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https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-01/sixty-six-garage-unconscious-and-anonymous-for-17-years
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That is one of my biggest fears. Nobody wants that for themselves, the home director admits they are water boarding him every few hours, and yet there he is. It is a cruelty only possible in a modern technophilic medical system
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Why Your Doctor Probably Has a "Do Not Resuscitate" Order
(https://time.com/131443/why-your-doctor-probably-has-a-do-not-resuscitate-order/)
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Paralympian Merieke Vervoort euthanized after years of deteriorating condition - UPI.com
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2019/10/23/Paralympian-Merieke-Vervoort-euthanized-after-years-of-worsening-condition/6651571845253/
> "Do Not Resuscitate" Order
Interestingly, I found out that DNR orders are somewhat ethnic is the US. My daughter, admin of a large, progressive nursing home, says you will rarely find a black patient with a DNR.
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In fairness:
"would choose to forgo this kind of treatment if they were dying of a terminal illness"
I think that's kind of different from a blanket DNR.
I stand with my black brothers on this one.
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>blanket DNR
While I'm in the 'f### it! Pull the plug.' group, Louise is was like you and would not sign a blanket DNR 20 years ago, when our hospitals first started asking for them. They have progressed quite a bit to the present state, which is far more detailed while also being easier to complete (a form with checkboxes). It's really quite good at tailoring your instructions for a broad range of possibilities. This was no small feat --I'm sure it took platoons of lawyers decades of billable hours. At any rate, most of our states have the templates online and even Louise was comfortable with filing it.
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President still needs to sign the bill into law, and he is known to have reservations.
Portugal′s parliament approves euthanasia bill
https://www.dw.com/en/portugals-parliament-approves-euthanasia-bill/a-59734995?maca=en-GK-Inoreader-NewsPolitics-21641-xml-media
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>> Louise
Similar here. I want to live a good life. If it's a good, long life, I'm happy about that, but "good" is more important than "long."
But I think age, marital status, kids/no kids, age of the kids and all that play in.
My sister with a life-threatening disease survived a bout with tubes and all that when her kids were 9 and 14 because she felt like she really needed to do it for the kids, especially the younger one who had been abandoned by her birth parents, abandoned by her first adoptive parents, and was facing the prospect of losing her THIRD mother by the age of 9. Now that the youngest is 33, my sister said that if faced with that situation again, she might or might not double down and go to extreme measures, but she would do it based on her needs and desires. I realize that's a different situation than a DNR. I'm just saying some of what goes into the decision is similar.