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Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: Travoli on June 09, 2016, 07:49:30 PM

Title: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Travoli on June 09, 2016, 07:49:30 PM
In the USA, "Civil forfeiture in the United States, sometimes called civil judicial forfeiture or occasionally civil seizure, is a controversial legal process in which law enforcement officers take assets from persons suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing."

This is being abused by police departments. In some states, large sums of cash have been confiscated purely on the suspicion it will be used to buy drugs. In some cases, cash was seized even when the owner had documentation showing they were on their way to buy a used automobile, etc... and many times the money isn't returned.

Civil forfeiture has now expanded beyond cash to include bank account funds of any debit card you are carrying.
"Now, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol has a device that also allows them to seize money in your bank account or on prepaid cards. It's called an ERAD, or Electronic Recovery and Access to Data machine, and state police began using 16 of them last month. Here's how it works. If a trooper suspects you may have money tied to some type of crime, the highway patrol can scan any cards you have and seize the money. "

Be careful out there.

http://www.news9.com/story/32168555/ohp-uses-new-device-to-seize-money-used-during-the-commission-of-a-crime


Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Mackin USA on June 09, 2016, 07:50:32 PM
Fers
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on June 09, 2016, 07:52:57 PM
In the US, I believe that most bank ATM cards are also debit cards.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Brad on June 09, 2016, 08:24:50 PM
Another reason not to have a debit card!

Civil Forfeiture is unconstitutional IMHO.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Travoli on June 09, 2016, 08:37:24 PM
>most bank ATM cards are also debit cards.

That's correct. Probably smart to reduce funds in any wallet-accessible accounts.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on June 20, 2016, 07:27:55 PM
I was reading up on this today, some states are much worse than others:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States#States
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Mackin USA on June 21, 2016, 01:23:15 PM
Good folks know what's up

North Carolina
    Abolished civil forfeiture almost entirely.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on August 10, 2016, 05:00:28 PM
Related/reasoning behind card searches, perhaps?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-regulations-moneylaundering-insig-idUSKCN10L0FC
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on August 11, 2016, 04:20:55 PM
Related: DEA scanning travelers for cash

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/10/dea-travel-record-airport-seizures/88474282/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Drastic on August 11, 2016, 05:24:16 PM
[“They count on this as part of the budget,” said Louis Weiss, a former supervisor of the DEA group assigned to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. “Basically, you’ve got to feed the monster.”

In most cases, records show the agents gave the suspected couriers a receipt for the cash — sometimes totaling $50,000 or more, stuffed into suitcases or socks — and sent them on their way without ever charging them with a crime.]

Just like most things (everything gov't), it's all about the money.

I think they have an electronic way of scanning for large amounts of bills.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on August 26, 2016, 10:05:13 PM
As it happens, we just had an incident.  Looks like I'm going to quit carrying my ATM card unless we can require a PIN on all transactions. My email to the local bank (FCB) service rep is below.

Quote
Wednesday, my wife mistakenly used her ATM/debit card (mistaking it for a charge card) at a restaurant here in Elizabeth City.  Though my wife told the cashier it was a credit card, we later noticed that the cashier simply processed the debit card and by-passed the PIN.  The paper receipt states "Mode: Issuer - PIN Bypassed".

Other than at ATMs (99% FCB machines) we do not use debit cards due to security issues. Though we expect this particular instance to be no problem, the PIN being casually bypassed by a vendor *DOES* concern us very much.

Is there a way to make a MANUAL keyboard entry of the PIN required & mandatory on all of our FCB debit card transactions?

The bank rep confirmed that the transaction will come out of checking directly. She did not answer the question about requiring a PIN.  Louise will stop by the bank sometime next week for an eyeball-to-eyeball chat, but I'm not expecting any way to lock this down.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Mackin USA on August 27, 2016, 03:41:12 PM
FCB

Futbol Club Barcelona, commonly known as Barcelona and familiarly as Barça, is a professional football club, based in Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on September 20, 2016, 12:48:18 PM
NYPD admits accounting for its civil-forfeiture seizures is hopeless

https://www.rt.com/usa/359913-nypd-civil-forfeiture-data/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Travoli on September 20, 2016, 05:57:46 PM
I'm genuinely curious how much abuse the general public is willing to accept before we collectively snap.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on September 20, 2016, 06:08:56 PM
>snap

We are already in a heavily militarized police state that is, in some ways, faaaar further along than Orwell could have imagined.  But, I think we are more like the surface-dwellers in 'Time Machine' than revolutionaries and are content to just keep waiting for the next siren to blow.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on September 20, 2016, 06:34:39 PM
Dark.  I see most of the problem as choose-your-outrage.  You are concern with civil liberty, my neighbor is worried about BLM, Ergo thinks climate change should be top priority.  Meanwhile, most of the power in the world is just obsessed with next quarter's profit.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on September 30, 2016, 07:31:18 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/california-civil-asset-forfeiture_us_57c46bf4e4b0cdfc5ac8686f

Quote
Existing California law had limited this process, requiring authorities in most state cases to convict a defendant before proceeding with civil asset forfeiture. But California cops were able to circumvent state law thanks to a federal program known as equitable sharing. By collaborating with federal authorities, state agencies made their seizures subject to more lenient federal statutes, while also giving themselves a larger portion of the resulting funds. This practice brought hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue to California law enforcement between 2000 and 2013.

The new law, SB 443, closes this loophole. Beginning Jan. 1, 2017, police departments in California will be largely prohibited from transferring seized property to federal agencies in order to sidestep state conviction requirements. The legislation forbids the transfer of property, like vehicles and homes, and specifically raises the threshold on cash seizures, requiring the government to obtain a conviction before permanently confiscating any amount under $40,000. (The previous cap was $25,000.) For larger cash seizures, authorities must provide “clear and convincing” evidence of a connection to criminal activity before taking the money for good.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on October 04, 2016, 12:04:51 PM
Where Local Governments Are Paying the Bills With Police Fines And Forfeiture

http://www.blacklistednews.com/Where_Local_Governments_Are_Paying_the_Bills_With_Police_Fines/54470/0/38/38/Y/M.html
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on October 19, 2016, 03:33:56 PM
Worth a quick scan. This story runs roughly parallel with a few past cases here is the southeast that I happened to notice.

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/police-department-civil-forfeiture-investigation/Content?oid=23728922
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on November 03, 2016, 08:02:50 PM
http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/high-court-rules-for-jury-trials-in-civil-forfeiture-cases/article_fa77c462-7427-5167-8f35-34145db3bf77.html

Quote
The Montana Supreme Court says citizens have a right to trial by jury before the state can take private property in civil forfeiture cases, a ruling that bolsters a law that state legislators passed last year to limit police seizures.

Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on January 10, 2017, 05:46:16 PM
Michigan Repeals Bond Requirement for Civil Forfeiture Cases

Quote
“In my many years as an attorney, I have seen the process of civil asset forfeiture spiral out of control,” said Rep. Peter Lucido
http://ij.org/michigan-law-repeals-bond-requirement-civil-forfeiture-cases/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on July 12, 2017, 04:11:28 AM
Connecticut Just Banned Civil Forfeiture Without A Criminal Conviction

https://www.forbes.com/sites/instituteforjustice/2017/07/11/connecticut-just-banned-civil-forfeiture-without-a-criminal-conviction/#52cb98c52e7a

Quote

Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy signed HB 7146 on Monday, which curbs the state’s civil forfeiture laws. Not only did the bill earn endorsements from the Yankee Institute for the Public Policy and the state chapter of the ACLU, HB 7146 even passed both the House and the Senate without a single no vote.

Under the new law, in order to permanently confiscate property with civil forfeiture, the property must be first seized in connection to either a lawful arrest or a lawful search that results in an arrest. If prosecutors do not secure a guilty verdict, a plea bargain or a dismissal from finishing a pretrial diversion program, the government must return the property to its rightful owner. With the stroke of a pen, Connecticut now becomes the 14th state to require a criminal conviction for most or all forfeiture cases.

Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on July 18, 2017, 01:57:58 PM
Attorney General Jeff Sessions on Monday said he'd be issuing a new directive this week aimed at increasing police seizures of cash and property.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/07/17/jeff-sessions-wants-police-to-take-more-cash-from-american-citizens/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Brad on July 18, 2017, 10:22:40 PM
Jeff Sessions couldn't find his way out of a paper bag, with a compass and a map.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Travoli on July 18, 2017, 10:24:35 PM
This is pretty worrisome.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on July 18, 2017, 10:37:41 PM
>worrisome

Yeah. As it turned out, I couldn't get an ATM-only card on the checking account *BUT* I'm told there is an option to get one limited to 3 withdrawals per month on the savings account.  While that's an inconvenience, I think I'm going to have to live with it.  Because interest on accounts and CDs is practically non-existent, I keep fairly large sums in checking. I'd be ripe for some Texas trooper to claim I was a drug lord.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on July 18, 2017, 10:51:41 PM
Hopefully Sessions is out of office soon.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: ergophobe on July 19, 2017, 03:44:36 PM
Hopefully Sessions is out of office soon.

I think Bannon will have to go first. It's harder to get rid of an AG anyway, but also as long as Bannon has influence (does he still? never hear anything), Sessions is safe. If Sessions goes, expect to see Bannon go next and vice versa.
 - http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/325838-bannon-encouraged-sessions-to-run-for-president-before
 - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/magazine/jeff-sessions-stephen-bannon-justice-department.html
 
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on July 19, 2017, 03:50:21 PM
No word on Bannon. He's gone dark.  I did see this yesterday, hhh.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-bannon-paul-ryan-breitbart-trump_us_596dfdfce4b0b95f893e00b0

Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on July 22, 2017, 09:06:40 PM
Apparently, the feds provide a loophole to any police department that wishes to grab assets regardless of their state's law.

Quote
Civil forfeiture is illegal in North Carolina, but a federal loophole thwarts the state’s citizen protections.

Under an “equitable sharing program,” states can partner with the federal government in forfeiture cases. Since state laws don’t apply under the program, North Carolina law enforcers are free to seize property and assets as they see fit.

Eighty percent of all property or money taken are funneled back to state and local law enforcers. The remaining 20 percent is collected by the U.S. Department of Justice, which has now stashed away $4 billion in seized assets. Congress can’t touch the money, which belongs to USDOJ.

https://www.carolinajournal.com/news-article/u-s-steps-up-use-of-civil-asset-forfeiture-which-is-illegal-in-n-c/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on July 24, 2017, 06:48:13 PM
Re Sessions:
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/will_bunch/americas-top-lawman-lied-under-oath-can-we-seize-his-stuff-20170724.html

America's top lawman lied under oath. Can we seize his stuff?

Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on September 20, 2017, 11:22:05 AM
Illinois reforms civil asset forfeiture

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/rauner-signs-civil-asset-forfeiture-reform-into-law/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on September 20, 2017, 12:46:21 PM
Congress is finally working to defund civil asset forfeiture

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/civil-rights/348890-congress-is-finally-working-to-defund-civil-asset-forfeiture
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on September 20, 2017, 04:49:50 PM
Every photo of Sessions makes him look like he's three feet tall.

There was a viral video last week of a guy working a hotdog stand who had the money in his wallet ($60) seized by a UC Berkeley police officer because he was working without a permit.  This probably wasn't legal under SB-443.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: Drastic on September 22, 2017, 04:58:36 PM
Let's see if this passes.

>Every photo of Sessions makes him look like he's three feet tall.

That must be by design. That creatively cropped shot is very Smeagle-ish.
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on September 22, 2017, 07:57:47 PM
>Smeagle-ish

+ a little Alfred E. Neuman

He's 5'4" apparently
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on December 03, 2017, 04:18:44 PM
Better call Vox.

Wyoming police took an innocent man's $91,800. After a Vox report, he will get it back.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/1/16726084/phil-parhamovich-cash-wyoming-civil-forfeiture
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on March 15, 2018, 06:40:19 PM
Might be a turning point.

Civil asset forfeiture reform is sweeping the nation (http://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/376961-civil-asset-forfeiture-reform-is-sweeping-the-nation)
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on March 17, 2018, 03:42:19 PM
Alabama civil asset forfeiture reform calls for transparency

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/mar/17/alabama-civil-asset-forfeiture-reform-calls-for-tr/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: littleman on April 06, 2018, 07:47:55 PM
More movement in the right direction:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/04/05/in-wisconsin-authorities-now-have-to-convict-you-of-a-crime-before-they-can-take-your-cash/
Title: Re: Civil forfeiture expanded
Post by: rcjordan on July 05, 2018, 09:39:48 PM
Utah Police Seized $2.2M in Cash Under Civil Forfeiture Law

In addition to the cash, police also seized an additional $401,000 worth of property

In addition to the money seized by state officials, Utah agencies also received $1.1 million from federal agencies that seized property from people in the state

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah/articles/2018-07-05/utah-police-seized-22m-in-cash-under-civil-forfeiture-law