Author Topic: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse  (Read 1542 times)

ergophobe

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Sorry... in French
https://www.lemonde.fr/planete/article/2019/05/22/le-sperme-suisse-aussi-est-de-mauvaise-qualite-alertent-des-chercheurs_5465296_3244.html?xtor=RSS-3208

Basic idea: Swiss sperm viability has fallen 32% between 1989 and 2005 from 99 million per ml to 47 million per ml. The big thing with this study is that Switzerland still has universal conscription, allowing the first ever country-wide study. The result correlates well with smaller studies around the developed world which could often be dismissed because of selection bias.

The Danes are at 41 million/ml and the Norwegians at 42, but lots of other studies are in the same range.

Below 40 million/ml and the WHO says that it becomes significantly harder to make babies. 60% of young Swiss men are now below the threshold set by the WHO.

Rumbas

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2019, 06:21:34 AM »
Auch! God thing I managed to deliver 3 humans then.

gm66

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2019, 02:11:07 PM »
It's happening in a lot of countries, estrogen (spelling?) in the water, estrogen in beer.
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ergophobe

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2019, 02:33:37 PM »
in a lot of countries

Basically all the developed nations. This study is just better than the others. I don't think the Swiss (or the Danes Raz) are particularly unique.

estrogen (spelling?) in the water, estrogen in beer.

I doubt it's just one thing. For example, we see trees in the Sierra Nevada struggling to survive for many reasons (drought), but one of the things that is under current research is that tailpipe emissions have added a lot of nitrogen to the soil. That's good if plants need it, but it's not good when it's too much. The air quality in the mountains of California, especially in Sequoia National Park is attrocious and they see those impacts on the plants. That can't be making us more robust.

Depletion of soils and losing key nutrients in foods is perhaps a factor (selenium?)

Then I suspect there are behavioral factors. I know that testosterone increases with hard physical work, assuming there is recovery time. And it decreases with bad sleep. The modern man does little hard physical work and has terrible sleep patterns.

So hormones and medicines in the water is no doubt an issue (apparently fish are being impacted by all the anti-depressants in the water these days). But like most things, there are probably 50 small causes, not one big one.

gm66

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2019, 03:27:09 PM »
Man oh man, there's no hope!

I read that potassium in the soil has been lowering for decades too, due to modern farming methods, i wonder if that effects sperm motility/mobility.
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littleman

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2019, 04:56:21 PM »
Xenoestrogens in plastics and foods are a big culprit too.  Along with fertility rates testosterone is falling.



ergophobe

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2019, 05:22:18 PM »
Again, though, I would say there are probably 100 factors. Just after I posted the above, I came across an article about recent research on health effects of cities. Since the 1930s, they have known that mental illness in cities is higher than in rural areas - 40% increase in depression, 100% increase in schizophrenia.

What's hard is disentangling all the factors. Air quality might be part of it, but air quality can be awful in rural areas (as I mentioned, Sequoia National Park air quality is generally worse than San Francisco air quality - it's some of the worst in the state).

But there are other things, like noise pollution, which seems to take a long-term toll on the mind. It may be the simple lack of greenery for reasons people don't yet understand. There are so many possible factors.

https://www.popsci.com/physical-surroundings-cities-mental-illness

littleman

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2019, 05:36:52 PM »
I am not doubting that there are multiple factors.  I posted the above mostly because most people have no idea about xenoestrogens and how to avoid them.  The world is urbanizing too, which isn't all bad.  Urban people have a smaller per-capita footprint than rural folk and the fertility rate falling isn't really a problem when there are so many of us.

ergophobe

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 07:14:12 PM »
Urban people have a smaller per-capita footprint than rural folk and the fertility rate falling isn't really a problem when there are so many of us.

I had the same thoughts - I do so much more driving than I did in Berkeley. That's the silver lining. In general, though, urban populations often have better health outcomes as well b/c of access to services. Mental health seems to be a particular problem.

But in any case, the widespread drop in fertility is, I think, a general measure of damage done and not just to humans

gm66

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2019, 12:31:47 AM »
Xenoestrogens in plastics and foods are a big culprit too.  Along with fertility rates testosterone is falling.


I had to Google that one, sounded like alien biology at first ;+}
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gm66

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Re: Swiss sperm of poor quality. Only Danish and Norwegian is worse
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2019, 12:35:51 AM »
Regarding population effect, there were studies a while back on rats that showed correlation between denser populations and increased aggression, self-harm and homosexuality!

You're both right, the list of influencing factors is very large and impossible to find a causal link in all that data.
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