Author Topic: EV tidbits  (Read 5573 times)

Brad

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2021, 12:19:59 PM »
A lot of things are going to be colliding in the future over this kind of stuff.

1. Resale value of cars.
2. Right to repair.  (The supply chain/labor shortages are bringing this to a head right now in farm machinery where the dealer is the only one that can service the machine but the dealer can't get critical parts and/or does not have a "technician" to send for days.)
3. Over complicating things that were not broken. (Like the IoT trying to put a flat screen on your toaster.)
4. Pricing yourself out of the market.  Either in $$ or by becoming to much of a pain in the butt to deal with.

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2022, 03:55:59 PM »
Rivian owner says it took 41 minutes to go from 20% to 80% on an EA 350kw charger in cold weather.

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2022, 03:03:57 PM »
All the Things That Drain Your EV Battery | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/story/ev-battery-drain-tips/

ergophobe

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2022, 05:21:34 PM »
Quote
turning the cruise control down just 2 mph, to 68 mph, “drag power would reduce by 800 watts to 8.7 kW”—in other words, an 8.4 percent savings in energy consumption for a 2.6 percent reduction in speed.

If I remember right from my first job writing a program comparing theoretical to experimental data for an AWACS tanker flight simulator, the power needed to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as a cube of speed until the speeds get close to the sound barrier, then the curves go all crazy.

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2022, 07:23:15 PM »
divided average price by vehicle range to determine the retail cost of each mile

the median EV cost $214 per mile of range in 2021
Tesla: $173 per mile in 2021
gas burners: $104 per mile with little variation over the past decade

EV Owners Pay More Per Mile of Range Than Gas Car Owners Do
https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-vehicles-cost-more-per-mile-range-than-gas-cars-2022-2

ergophobe

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2022, 08:18:21 PM »
Is that a useful metric for comparing gas and EV?

Consider some extreme cases:
 - an EV with a 1000-mile range for $1000 and an expected TCO over 1 million miles of $10,000
 - an ICE with a $1000-mile range for $800 and an expected TCO over 1 million miles of $20,000

In that case, all I would care about is cost per mile driven.

At the other extreme
 - an EV with a 50-mile range for $5000
 - an ICE with a 500-mile range for $60,000

The ICE is more expensive per mile of range, but since the 50-mile range is completely inadequate for my uses, that car has almost no value to me.

What I want is a threshold range long enough to get rid of range anxiety and then, at that point, it becomes a non-issue.

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2022, 08:32:31 PM »
>Is that a useful metric for comparing gas and EV?

It is for me, personally, but I doubt it rings with many others.  I have a simplistic personal metric that I have used for decades now to evaluate cars I've owned (mentioned in th3core once or twice) ---can I get the cost of ownership (without gas, insurance, & routine maintenance) down to 10cents/mile?  The absolute best were Ford Tempos (I had several for the kids, I quit tracking one when it got down to 4c.)

ergophobe

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2022, 08:51:51 PM »
But you're talking about cost of ownership, which makes total sense. I would say affordability (can you actually buy it without bankrupting yourself) and TCO are the two metrics that matter the most when looking at price.

That's not the metric they're talking about in the article. They're saying cost per mile of range. That's the metric that makes no sense to me. It is precisely the TCO that makes sense. Range, to me, is more of a binary - it's enough or it isn't. If it's enough, I'm going to look at other factors, like cost of ownership.

The range question is more like me deciding that I will only buy a car with AWD. I really don't care what the cost per drive wheel is. It is not a relevant metric.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 08:53:56 PM by ergophobe »

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2022, 09:20:33 PM »
>They're saying cost per mile of range.

To me, "cost per mile" anything is what strikes a chord.  I already convert purchase price to that metric. Range (which needs to be 300-ish for me) cost per mile may make me reevaluate EVs I'm interested in.  My other primary requirement is frame size --I need a van or large suv.

ergophobe

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2022, 10:41:17 PM »
>>which needs to be 300-ish for me

If all other things were equal, but you had this choice

 - 1000 mile range for $100,000
 - 1200 mile range for $119,000

By the logic of the article, the 1200 is a better deal. But those numbers have nothing to do with the cost per mile of driving.

Or look at it from the other direction. 300 is your min. So if, all else being equal, which do you pick

100 mile range for $10,000
400 mile range for $50,000

By the logic of the article, the 100-mile car is a better deal. But that metric has no bearing on my decision.

Even in the middle ground where range anxiety comes into play, I'm not likely to decide between 300 and 400 range based on a cost per mile of total range. I'm going to decide based on the marginal utility of that extra range.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2022, 10:45:45 PM by ergophobe »

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2022, 01:36:16 PM »
How to Take Care of Your Electric Vehicle Battery | WIRED
https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-take-care-electric-vehicle-battery/

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2022, 07:48:39 PM »

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2022, 01:38:28 AM »
Under German law, self-driving cars must be programmed to avoid human death at all cost. This means the car is allowed to destroy property, accelerate beyond legal speeds, and hit animals to avoid hitting a human.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-autonomous-germany-idUSKCN1B31MT

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2022, 01:29:26 PM »

rcjordan

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Re: EV tidbits
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2022, 10:40:39 PM »
 (US) EV charger with no cloud: OpenEVSE

GM says that their heat pump hvac add 10% to range.