Author Topic: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years  (Read 431 times)

ergophobe

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4446
    • View Profile
Oct 7 marked the 17th anniversary of the war in Afghanistan, where the US currently has 15,000 troops.

When the war started, none of the following existed:
 - YouTube
 - Facebook
 - Twitter
 - the iPhone

It struck me the other day, on the anniversary, that we all need to be reminded from time to time.

Brad

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2360
  • What, me worry?
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2018, 02:03:02 AM »
>reminded

Yes we do. Thank you.

littleman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2018, 02:17:55 AM »
How do you win this war?  Or Iraq?

There is no realistic acceptable outcome.  Eventually we will just decide to stop spending money and lives to sustain the occupations.

Mackin USA

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Abstract Artist
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2018, 11:30:11 AM »
Good reminder.

World opinion, however, largely disapproved of the Taliban’s social policies—including the near-total exclusion of women from public life (including employment and education),
Mr. Mackin

Brad

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2360
  • What, me worry?
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2018, 02:21:44 PM »
Afghanistan - nowhere on the way to somewhere.  Alexander the Great marched his army through Afghanistan to get to India. He paid off the locals and promised not to stay.  There is no Afghan nation.  There are a bunch of different tribes inhabiting a buffer zone between much larger political and ethnic groups.  You will never impose democracy there, the Afghans have to work that out for themselves.  They have never encountered The Enlightenment either.   The sooner we understand: 1. there is no real country to fight for, 2. we, the outsiders, cannot impose real lasting democracy, the better.

Iraq - same problem.  There is no country, no nation state to fight for.  The boundaries were drawn up by European Empires and clump Suni Arabs, Shia Arabs (who hate each other) with ethnic Kurds plus a bunch of smaller ethnic groups.  None of these groups like each other.    There is nothing we can "establish" there.  Iraq makes more sense broken up into 3 different countries than it does as one.  All we are doing is putting band-aids on gaping wounds: an inevitable sectarian war between Suni and Shia Islam (not our fight), and an ethnic war between Turks, Kurds and Arabs, all at the same time. Iraq is ground zero.

ergophobe

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4446
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2018, 07:05:44 PM »
World opinion, however...

Honestly, I didn't want to get into any of that. I was just thinking of the men and women serving there, all but forgotten, while the war is basically unmentioned in the current election cycle, on the news or anywhere else. I just feel like, no matter how you see the war, they deserve to be remembered and recognized.

Mackin USA

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Abstract Artist
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM »
>>they deserve to be remembered and recognized.

Totally agree.
Mr. Mackin

aaron

  • Inner Core
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2018, 03:01:16 PM »
How do you win this war?  Or Iraq?

There is no realistic acceptable outcome.  Eventually we will just decide to stop spending money and lives to sustain the occupations.
Iraq was about oil & maintaining the petrodollar
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/politics-and-economics-drive-iraq-to-the-euro-635461.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeuro

Libya wanted gold-backed currency across Africa
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/gy9d49/libyan-oil-gold-and-qaddafi-the-strange-email-sidney-blumenthal-sent-hillary-clinton-in-2011
https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2016/01/06/new-hillary-emails-reveal-true-motive-for-libya-intervention/
that's how they got a failed state, anarchy & open slave markets
https://www.newsweek.com/humans-sale-libyan-slave-trade-continues-while-militants-kill-and-torture-855118

While the push away from the Dollar was panned in FP as conspiracy theory
https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/07/debunking-the-dumping-the-dollar-conspiracy/
it is worth noting China created a Yuan denominated oil exchange
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-oil-yuan-exclusive/exclusive-china-taking-first-steps-to-pay-for-oil-in-yuan-this-year-sources-idUSKBN1H51FA
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/30/reuters-america-analysis-shanghai-crude-futures-eat-into-western-benchmarks-as-china-pushes-yuan.html
and they have a gold exchange & have been importing hundreds of tons of gold
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-gold-import/chinas-june-net-gold-imports-via-hong-kong-jump-to-15-month-high-idUSKBN1KG1Y7
it's no coincidence the US-China trade talks must cover currencies
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-imf-worldbank-mnuchin/u-s-china-trade-talks-must-cover-currency-u-s-treasury-chief-says-idUSKCN1MM0VQ

If China creates a parallel market to the Dollar for pricing core commodities that lowers the power of US sanctions. If China has a large gold pool which they allow convertability into for their currency then countries trading with them can price the transactions in the Yuan, lowering global demand for the Dollar.

Good reminder.

World opinion, however, largely disapproved of the Taliban’s social policies—including the near-total exclusion of women from public life (including employment and education),
Not sure if you have ever seen the Adam Curtis documentary called The Power of Nightmares, but he highlights how we armed them and brought them to a more influential place to fight off the Russians only to have it blow up in our faces later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
I am not sure if it was that documentary or another one of his called Hypernormalization, but he mentioned how people were claiming their neighbor was Taliban to settle an old score & basically everything was fake & we were just sort of funding anarchy which was self-fueled & available in basically unlimited supplies so long as the capital and military power flowed.

World opinion, however...

Honestly, I didn't want to get into any of that. I was just thinking of the men and women serving there, all but forgotten, while the war is basically unmentioned in the current election cycle, on the news or anywhere else. I just feel like, no matter how you see the war, they deserve to be remembered and recognized.
The big issue driving the need for all the military spending & foreign military adventure stuff is the trade & economic imbalances.

Onshoring supply chains fixes part of that because a lot of economic innovation comes near the source of manufacturing through combining processes.

If the US were to fix the corruption in the healthcare system it would easily be the most efficient economy in the world & have far less need to dominate global politics with military force.

buckworks

  • Inner Core
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 959
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2018, 07:00:49 PM »
Quote
If the US were to fix the corruption in the healthcare system it would easily be the most efficient economy in the world & have far less need to dominate global politics with military force.

Wow.

That is my food for thought for the day.

aaron

  • Inner Core
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 206
    • View Profile
Re: In case you missed it, as of Oct 7, we've been at war for 17 years
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2018, 07:38:30 PM »
this is the sort of series of threats that if/when acted upon has frequently led to quick disappearances of the associated governments
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2018/10/14/US-sanctions-on-Riyadh-would-mean-Washington-is-stabbing-itself.html
Quote
If US sanctions are imposed on Saudi Arabia, we will be facing an economic disaster that would rock the entire world. Riyadh is the capital of its oil, and touching this would affect oil production before any other vital commodity. It would lead to Saudi Arabia's failure to commit to producing 7.5 million barrels. If the price of oil reaching $80 angered President Trump, no one should rule out the price jumping to $100, or $200, or even double that figure. An oil barrel may be priced in a different currency, Chinese yuan, perhaps, instead of the dollar. And oil is the most important commodity traded by the dollar today.

Russia and China are ready to fulfill Riyadh’s military needs among others. No one can deny that repercussions of these sanctions will include a Russian military base in Tabuk, northwest of Saudi Arabia, in the heated four corners of Syria, Israel, Lebanon and Iraq. At a time where Hamas and Hezbollah have turned from enemies into friends, getting this close to Russia will lead to a closeness to Iran and maybe even a reconciliation with it.

Riyadh would stop buying weapons from the US. ... in addition to the end of Riyadh’s investments in the US government which reaches $800 billion.
Cutting oil production (sparking inflation), not recycling petrodollars (would increase US interest rates & lower financial asset prices) AND pricing oil in another currency (lowering global demand for the Dollar & hitting the Dollar during an inflationary spike) would be begging for trouble.

The above would be a quick bout a chaos, as we are around a $1 trillion deficit during a non-recession & a huge portion of gov revenue is tied to asset price inflation. Since the 90s tech boom & the broad wave of outsourcing production to China the US has become structurally dependent on asset bubbles.

A guy named Luke Gromen does a great job of following major geopolitical issues related to reserve currency, US trade war with China, etc.
https://twitter.com/LukeGromen
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 07:43:03 PM by aaron »