Author Topic: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.  (Read 7607 times)

rcjordan

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Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« on: September 12, 2020, 02:02:49 PM »
VMware Cuts Pay for Remote Workers Fleeing Silicon Valley - Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-11/vmware-twitter-cut-pay-for-remote-workers-fleeing-bay-area


from earlier thread

Zuckerberg says employees moving out of Silicon Valley may face pay cuts
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/zuckerberg-50percent-of-facebook-employees-could-be-working-remotely.html

ergophobe

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2020, 09:07:05 PM »
I wonder how many of them saw it coming. Every time I talk to someone who mentions how they can now work from everywhere, when I say as gently as I can that means they can be replaced by someone much cheaper, they seem surprised and it's they first they've thought of it. And maybe the occasional person has a pained look that says, "Yeah, I know."

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2020, 09:29:45 PM »
> that means they can be replaced by someone much cheaper

In some cases, much, MUCH cheaper.  Indian and Vietnamese workers, already having some English language skills, will eat the remote worker market alive. And it gets around the US visa problems, too.

Also, foreign remote workers would likely be easy to classify as subcontractors, which makes them waaaay easier to deal with than employees.


ergophobe

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 12:03:04 AM »
>>Indian and Vietnamese

If it's someone who I think is emotionally robust, when they say, "That means I could work from Tahoe," I say, "You realize that means your job can be done from Romania or the Philippines then, right?" I'm not trying to be a downer, but trying to get them to start thinking about what it is they bring to the job that someone from Romania could not (local knowledge for example) or that they bring that is worth 2X per day what a Romanian gets.

I pick Romania, because they seem to have high levels of both English and programming skills. One friend who used to hire California contractors now works almost entirely with Romanians.

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 11:39:03 AM »
Another one.

> your job can be done from Romania

If companies are willing to provide incentives to move out of HCOL areas then the flip side is they have also directed their HR departments to give preference to potential remote worker hires that already live in LCOL areas 'cause it is cheaper.

Stripe will paying employees a bonus to leave Seattle, New York and San Francsico, but it's also cutting their pay
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/16/business/stripe-employees-new-cities/index.html

nffc

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 12:06:36 PM »
>>>Indian and Vietnamese

Baltic states a great spot, exceptional English and low cost. Min wage in Latvia is around $500 a month.

ergophobe

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 02:12:47 PM »
Most of these pay cuts are on the order of 10% to 20%. Frankly, that's still a bargain for the employee. There are very few places in the country that have 90% the COL of the Bay Area.

It makes me wonder what it means for remote workers in Paris, Geneva, Zurich, Copenhagen and other extremely expensive cities. San Fran and Seattle don't even appear on any Ten Most Expensive lists that I find (New York does though, which maps with the rumor mill - my niece was all excited because they found a "cheap" two-bedroom apt in Brooklyn for only $4500/mo).
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:17:22 PM by ergophobe »

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2020, 07:09:15 PM »
Knives coming out for our labor market.

How the rise in remote work during Covid-19 could transform developing countries - Vox
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/21445830/work-from-home-covid-19-offshoring

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2020, 02:21:22 PM »

BoL

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2020, 02:41:34 PM »
>https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/11/staff-who-work-from-home-after-pandemic-should-pay-more-tax

Nuts. I've been able to work the past 7 months precisely because I do work from home, which about 8 million people have been given 80% of their wages from the Government. They're suggested I should pay more tax for the privilege!

My regional government had a consultation on the "digital economy" right before the pandemic. I suggested there's a middle ground where there could be neighbourhood offices within walking distance that gives people space away from home but has the environmental benefits. Seems like the majority don't mind working from home anyway, providing they have the space and peace for it.

ergophobe

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 04:40:16 PM »
These types of things always irk me.

The pay cut for remote workers totally makes sense - if I'm a business that used to require you to live in one of the costliest cities in the world and now I'm saying you can live anywhere, if you choose to move somewhere cheap, why would I pay you Palo Alto wages?

But to institute tax policy that discourages work from home is just so wrong. In fact, it is utterly backwards if you care about things like carbon footprint, land use, highway congestion, air pollution and any other number of actual problems.

The problem in the US is that wages are the bottom are too low and this is due to a lot of policies aimed at holding wages down or, more often, aimed at helping the investor class regardless of the impact on the working class. We have had a bias for 40 years against inflation, for example, which favors investors, but generally hurts workers as it tends to increase unemployment and push wages down.

Instead of just paying people at the bottom more, we have a zillion policies that effectively amount to subsidies to businesses and all consumers, including the very rich, by propping up businesses with subsidies (such as food stamps, Medicare) and keeping the cost of dining out and buying all manner of crap cheap for rich and poor alike.

In the words of Nick Hanauer, "We have a technology to eradicate poverty. It's called money." Just pay people enough to make it worth it for them to leave their homes.

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2020, 11:09:32 PM »
Bay Area applicants flood program that pays them $10,000 to leave California
https://www.sfgate.com/living-in-sf/article/San-Franciscans-are-jumping-at-an-offer-of-10k-15591762.php

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2020, 01:41:54 PM »
Thousands apply to be a Finn for 90 days in migration scheme | Finland | The Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/25/thousands-apply-to-be-a-finn-for-90-days-in-migration-scheme

rcjordan

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2021, 01:19:11 PM »
This will happen.

Remote work risks exploiting workers in low-income countries Quartz Africa

https://qz.com/africa/2053741/remote-work-risks-exploiting-workers-in-low-income-countries/

Brad

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Re: Remote work? Here's a pay cut.
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2021, 02:13:22 PM »
> This will happen.

Agree.

Never underestimate greed.  Never underestimate the greed of corporations.