Author Topic: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World  (Read 1677 times)

Mackin USA

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Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« on: September 25, 2017, 10:26:03 AM »
We broke-up AT&T in1956
They made their Intellectual Property available for free and that made way for:
Intel
Texas Instruments
Motorola
Fairchild Semiconductor
and other innovative firms

The Tech Giants control access to information AND know too much about us.
Mr. Mackin

Travoli

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 05:59:16 PM »
Govt: threatens to break up Amazon
Citizens: "Alexa, buy riot gear"

ergophobe

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 07:17:17 PM »
The Tech Giants control access to information AND know too much about us.

They do... but there is fairly intense competition in the space so I don't think it's like the AT&T situation where a monopoly was encouraged and built under the watchful gaze of PUCs and we finally decided that in fact the monopoly, which was probably a *good* thing early on to ease adoption, had become a bad thing.

In this case, who out there "knows too much about us?"
 - tech giants: GAF triumvirate
 - banks, credit card companies, credit reporting bureaus
 - state and federal govt
 - insurance companies, especially health insurance companies
 - UPS and FedEX
 - telecoms
 - market research companies

I don't see a way out of that by breaking up Google or even Uncle Sam (and for all intents and purposes, hasn't WikiLeaks effectively open-sourced the NSA and CIA's information gathering methods?). Rather, if we want solutions to that, I see those in the form of:

- distributed networks
- universal encryption
- anonymous payment schemes (digital cash)
- ad and tracking blocking

Of course, governments, tech giants and all of the above will fight those measures. The govt because they all enable criminal activity (which is true) and the tech giants because they all stifle criminal activity... I'm sorry, I mean stifle rapacious tracking and hounding of customers... I'm sorry, they stifle the ability to offer good customer service and user experience.

Sorry. Took me a minute to remember the correct wording for that.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 07:19:51 PM by ergophobe »

Brad

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 10:09:27 PM »
Break up Google and Alphabet.
Break up the to big to fail banks.

Stop further consolidations in tech, telecoms, insurance.

ergophobe

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 10:36:12 PM »
Break up the to big to fail banks.

What if we had just let them fail? Too much short-term pain for the long-term benefit? It would have been one way to break them up.

littleman

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2017, 01:54:32 AM »
We are approaching a time when Amazon's economy of scale will reduce it's relative marginal cost to the point where no one will be able to compete.  If that happens and it turns out that retail becomes a natural monopoly it should probably either be regulated or broken up.

I could also see a time when Google is forced to subsidize a competitor to keep the US government from splitting it up.

buckworks

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2017, 02:06:44 AM »
>> In this case, who out there "knows too much about us?"

Add Amazon to that list. And probably eBay.

ergophobe

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2017, 02:31:47 AM »
>> In this case, who out there "knows too much about us?"

Add Amazon to that list.

GAF triumvirate = Google, Amazon, Facebook. But probably should include Apple. EBay is an interesting choice - totally off my radar. I have always hated the buying and selling experience there and have only made a transaction 3-4 times... but you're probably right. They probably have a huge and scary data set.

Brad

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2017, 10:54:14 AM »
>subsidize a competitor

I'm still amazed the EU has not done this and built their own search engine.

I think the telecoms should subsidize rural broadband Internet.

We did this with Rural Electrfication during the Depression and I think it could be done again for broadband.

Mackin USA

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2017, 11:29:06 AM »
https://www.fcc.gov/general/universal-service [VERY LONG]

In early 2009, Congress directed the FCC to develop a National Broadband Plan to ensure every American has “access to broadband capability. The plan was released in March of 2010. The plan highlighted ways that the government could influence the broadband ecosystem including to “reform current universal service mechanisms to support the deployment of broadband and voice in high-cost areas; and ensure that low-income Americans can afford broadband; and in addition, support efforts to boost adoption and utilization.”
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Brad

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 12:15:27 PM »
>FCC

There are a lot of laws on the books that in reality are dying on the vine.  Is this actually working and in what century will we see results?  Maybe it is, I don't know the answer.  I do know that in many parts of the rural Midwest, if you are not near a city or an Interstate hwy you are dark.


ergophobe

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Re: Should we break-up the TECH GIANTS to the GOOD of the World
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2017, 04:26:53 PM »
>Is this actually working

Uh... no. Speaking from rural California, there are lots of dark areas in California. The telecoms spent most of their money lobbying Congress to change the definition of what qualified for broadband subsidies to pull money into slow satellite connections. Satellite has gotten faster, but latency and bandwidth caps are a still a killer which effectively mean you are not on the "real" internet as most Americans know it.

I've probably whined too much about this here in the past, but...

15 years ago we actually had a ultra fancy dual ISDN (yes, in 2003-2006) for a massive 256Kbps. I think it was about $250/mo which we split with the developer we shared a house with.

We tried satellite for a while.

In our case, we finally had to bite the bullet and switch from supposed 5Mbps satellite for about $80-$110/month depending on how much we got in overage charges in a given month, to $388.80/mo for 1.5Mbps T1 line. That is obviously not affordable for most households. Satellite is so bad, however, that there are at least four households in our neighborhood that are paying close to $400 for 1.5Mbps (so somewhere around 3% of houses have a $380/mo T1 line).

Reliable 1.5Mbps with low latency is almost like actually being on the internet, though God forbid that you want to use modern development techniques like defining a Vagrant profile or a Composer profile for a project and launch it with "vagrant up" or "composer install" and wait while you try to pull a GB of data through that straw. But in general, it works. You can watch movies and connect via SSH terminal and all manner of things that people do in the city.

Satelite on the other hand... 5Mbps (or 10Mbps) with huge variations in actual bandwidth, very small uplink and latencies of .6 sec to 1 second, you are not on the real internet at all.

So many services will simply not let you on with latency that high. And for things like logging into a terminal via SSH or working in the AdWords interface, satellite is not usable.

I think the telecoms should subsidize rural broadband Internet.

Meanwhile, not only with the telecoms not subsidize rural broadband, AT&T refused to accept the Obama stimulus money to push rural broadband in California. They said "If it were in our business model to service those areas, we would do so without subsidies. Subsidies don't change our business model" (which of course is BS, because all sorts of other subsidies do change their model). The basic issue was that even with the subsidies, there wasn't enough money to made in rural areas and they focused on rolling out higher and higher speeds in the cities, because that's where the money was.

Also, note that there are other costs. All discounts I know of that you can get on your cell phone or satellite TV or landline are tied to bundling with AT&T broadband. So not only do we pay more for our internet, we pay more for our landline (we don't pay for cell phones or satellite TV) because of the lack of rural broadband.

And here's the kicker... AT&T doesn't need to provide a monetary subsidy. If AT&T would simply let Conifer Networks install a small transceiver on the AT&T microwave tower that supplies our landline phone, Conifer would provide internet at near market rates without any other help from AT&T (assuming the microwave system could handle the bandwidth). At our house we still might not get it, because it would be a WISP network... but they are sure they could hit 80% of the houses.