Author Topic: Terminator Scenario  (Read 175978 times)

rcjordan

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #405 on: March 02, 2020, 12:19:16 AM »
>almost 8 years old

Fast-forward:

Turkey’s Killer Drone Swarm Poses Syria Air Challenge to Putin
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-01/turkey-s-killer-drone-swarm-poses-syria-air-challenge-to-putin

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #406 on: March 02, 2020, 04:24:02 AM »
If fighter jets had stock-market style pricing, I wonder what the value of a $152,000,000 F-22 Raptor just fell to.

Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #407 on: March 02, 2020, 04:30:07 AM »
Elon Musk tells a room full of Air Force pilots: 'The fighter jet era has passed'

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/elon-musk-says-the-fighter-jet-era-has-passed.html

Brad

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #408 on: March 02, 2020, 12:08:07 PM »
Elon Musk tells a room full of Air Force pilots: 'The fighter jet era has passed'

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/elon-musk-says-the-fighter-jet-era-has-passed.html

I've been wondering when somebody would mention this.  We keep building supercarriers for the USN, but we should also be designing smaller carriers for drones.

Manned aircraft aren't dead yet tho, sooner or later somebody will come up with electronic counter measures ECM to jam drones.

Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #409 on: March 02, 2020, 05:56:46 PM »
Surface ships are also doomed until lasers catch up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtXx3Qubmys&feature=youtu.be&t=117

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #410 on: March 02, 2020, 06:25:04 PM »
>sooner or later somebody will come up with electronic counter measures ECM to jam drones.

And that's when AI kicks in with the potential for out terminator scenario.

There is also this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik

Apparently the US was working on this technology in the 1960s but abandon it because it had too high a risk of radiation fallout.

rcjordan

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #411 on: March 02, 2020, 08:20:28 PM »
Surface ships are also doomed. Period. FTFY

gm66

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #412 on: March 03, 2020, 10:32:08 AM »
Airburst EMP.
Civilisation is a race between disaster and education ...

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #413 on: March 03, 2020, 04:06:02 PM »
Airburst EMP.

Ha! So the plot twist that always drives me insane in sci-fi is when they "switch to manual." My logic being that any culture that can flit between the stars will have such advanced AI that the very next thing that happens to a ship after it switches to manual is that it will explode.

But if you launch a huge airburst EMP, that will fry all the electronics in a certain radius, yours and theirs. So the drones are dead, but now you have to actually switch to manual and the plucky band of humans led by an aging Bruce Willis wins again.

gm66

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #414 on: March 05, 2020, 11:25:58 AM »
An aging Bruce Willis plus his plucky young co-star who will eventually replace him.
Civilisation is a race between disaster and education ...

Mackin USA

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #415 on: March 06, 2020, 12:22:09 PM »
Minimum-Wage Blowback - Fast Food Burger-Flipping Robot Works For $3 An Hour

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/fast-food-robot-works-3-hour
Mr. Mackin

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #416 on: March 06, 2020, 03:57:52 PM »
Minimum-Wage Blowback

Well, at $3/hour, there is no minimum wage that is going to keep that robot from coming.

There are some good minimum wage studies from places where they have raised the minimum wage and you can make direct comparisons across city and state lines. Generally speaking, raising the minimum wage has generally not cost jobs. Some research shows that it does.

So at one end is the CBO study that says that raising the minimum wage to $15 across the US would result in 1.3 million jobs lost AND 1.3 million people raised out of poverty. I'll leave it to you to decide whether or not that's a good thing, but I feel that people who work full-time should not be living in poverty, especially not given the gains that have gone to the top 10% over the last 40 years.

Other research shows much smaller job loss and if you look at what has actually happened, results have been mixed. Unemployment in NY rose slightly while in SFO it did not. Some research has adjusted these numbers for what happened in neighboring cities and states to isolate the effects of raising the minimum wage and has shown that job loss from raising the minimum wage is less than predicted in simple models, because low-income people spend their money locally, whereas when the gains go to high-income people, as they have since the 1970s, they put that money into investments and such that do not benefit the local economy.

https://psmag.com/news/what-the-research-says-about-a-15-minimum-wage
https://www.epi.org/publication/minimum-wage-testimony-feb-2019/
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/15-minimum-wage-reduces-poverty-doesnt-cut-jobs-berkeley-study-says-2019-07-08

There may or may not be some job loss due to raising the wages of the lowest-paid workers, but what's the point of full-time jobs that pay for nothing except living at home with your parents on their health insurance and eating their food?

Over half of fast food workers are over 21. Many live in poverty.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fast-food-jobs-real_n_6028404

Minimum wage kept pace with productivity from 1945 to 1970, at which point they became decoupled and productivity gains accrued to the wealthy rather than to everyone. If minimum wage had remained coupled to productivity gains, it would now be over $20 per hour. If it had merely tracked with inflation, it would be $11.58.

I worked plenty of minimum wage jobs early on, but it was a different world. Much minimum-wage work is now better done by a robot. With the rise of Just In Time Scheduling and intense surveillance, most minimum-wage jobs are far, far worse than the ones that I had 30 or 40 years ago.

Compared to a minimum-wage worker of today, I not only had 38% higher pay, I also had a more steady schedule, more hours per week, the ability to do multiple things (school and work or multiple jobs) because of the steadier scheduling.

Honestly, I say that if the best we can do for people are jobs that have erratic schedules where people are essentially on-call every day so they can't combine multiple jobs, get short shifts, are scheduled to stay below 29 hours per week to keep them from qualifying for benefits, are paid $7.25/hour, we are better off as a society if those jobs just go away and we find other ways to help those people live.

As it is now, our entire welfare system - food stamps, Medicaid, etc - is basically one big subsidy to the fast food industry.

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #417 on: March 06, 2020, 06:41:45 PM »
This is where UBI comes into play.  If minimum wage stays where it is, but then gets augmented by UBI we get the benefit of boosted wages without the downward pressure on employment. 

Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #418 on: March 06, 2020, 06:44:31 PM »
> $3/hour

These are just "early adopter" rates and will come down quickly.

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #419 on: March 07, 2020, 03:23:20 AM »
These are just "early adopter" rates and will come down quickly.

Exactly. In the long run, there's no wage that will compete with that. Complaining, unreliable humans willing to work for free will not compete against a good robot. There is no wage that can bring the elevator operator back.

>>This is where UBI comes into play.

Go Yang!

I have mixed feelings though. Do we want to be in a society where some people are paid so little for socially useful full-time work (I consider serving food socially useful) that they can only survive if they get a UBI. Nick Hanauer, who was a major force behind the Seattle $15/hr min wage and is not convinced about UBI always says, "We know how to increase the income of people at the bottom. Pay people more." One of the things that struck me in Switzerland was how much more people made at the bottom and all the follow-on effects of that on Swiss society.

On the other hand, I heard something in the context of a discussion about combating climate change. One person was saying, "There's no reason we can't do this. We have all the technology we need to solve the climate change problem."

The other person said, "We have the technology to solve poverty too. It's called money. We have the technology to solve hunger. It's called food. But we haven't solved those problems yet either."

I can't get that retort out of my head.

On the