Author Topic: That 100k projection...  (Read 3204 times)

rcjordan

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2020, 04:36:19 PM »
>thoughts

I think you're seeing it as it really is, though I'm not personally exposed to much of it here in my rural seclusion.  The mask issue was a problem here in 1918, this time it has been whipped to a political/person freedom frenzy by both the right & left.

I can **almost** sympathize with the rush to reopen ...but not quite.  Again, I'm somewhat distanced from that because Louise & I don't have to go to work.  If I was -say- a restaurant owner I'm sure my viewpoint would be massively influenced by the prospect of my business going belly-up.

>restaurants (& travel)

While on restaurants, it is shocking what a large percentage of our jobs and economy used to revolve around NOT cooking at home. 

>schools

Kids staying at home for weeks on end. I can't imagine how we haven't killed them all.

Drastic

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2020, 02:58:21 PM »
One things about masks, is we were told specifically not to buy or attempt to acquire them so providers wouldn't run out. This was hammered out pretty hard in the early months. I think it set a precedent that wearing masks just wasn't important for the general public. At least they didn't outright lie to us like the UK gov.

The other whacked out stuff is being sensationalized in the media. We have had some minor protests here, but they were small and non-violent. I've not seen anything outside of large cities for rioting. It is more than it would be at a normal time, as lots of people have little work or recreation activities are limited.

Covid, BLM and elections all at once are making this super turbulent. I sure wouldn't visit right now.

Rumbas

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2020, 10:40:17 PM »
>freedom frenzy

Bingo. That's what we're "seeing". Sterotype Americans "you can't rule us" attitude that comes out in every news bit here. Fueled by Social media.

>restaurants

Yes, I would probably feel the same if I was affected and not being able to support my family. Damn lucky to work the internet and being able to work without too much hazzle.

>masks

Good point and similar here Dras. Most Danes kind of feel stupid wearing them and most of us don't.. yet. Remember we have almost no cases now and life seems somewhat normal, but I'm pretty sure you'll see everyone wearing them if we were asked to do so. Was in Berlin last week and almost everyone wore them and mandatory in any store, restaurant and public transport.

Hang in there guys and girls. I hope to see ya'll again some time.

ergophobe

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2020, 02:58:38 AM »
I have a lot of concerns and worries about the future of democracy in America, but I won't go there. To your questions.

>>ever going to the US again.

Coming here now seems like a terrible idea, but ever is a long time. You've come here before and things have been crazier than this before (see, "Perspective" below). I do have worries that we are on an inexorable slide, but that's probably unlikely and I am prone to worry about such things.

I think of it like passing through a cultural bottleneck. Inside the bottleneck, where we are now, the pressure is super high. On the other side, less so. The open question is how far into the bottleneck are we and what will the other side look like? Will we come out looking more like Denmark or Poland or something new altogether?

Covid: yes, total sh## show. Even without our president being anti-mask and anti-lockdown, there are a lot of people whipping up conspiracy theories who would be working triple time right now if Clinton were in office and passing a national mask law. I can't even imagine.

Elections.

Yes, apparently that is the best we can do. Astounding for a country with the incredible creative and productive capacity of the USA, but here we are. Of all the things that worry me about what's happening right now, the one that most concerns me is something that would result in seriously questioning the legitimacy of the elections. If that happens, regardless of the winner, the result will be horrible. The country will explode. The recent riots will be nothing. I expect a lot of unrest regardless of who wins. If Trump loses, it will be the craziest transition in history. If Trump loses and tries to question the result, it could get really bad. If Trump wins, there will be mass demonstrations. I don't see an outcome without some madness in November. I would definitely not plan travel to the US during that period.

BLM.

Speaking personally, I had long vaguely meant to read Between the World and Me by Ta-Nahisi Coates. If not for the protests, I doubt I would ever have gotten around to it. But because of all this, I did and now, I wish everyone would read it. I think a lot of us who live complacently in overwhelmingly white areas and who have had the privilege of not thinking much about race have finally been forced to reflect a bit more deeply. For me, that's been a good thing. The protests in my area were peaceful affairs and the local sheriff was been exemplary from Day One.

There's an interesting interview with Ta-Nahisi Coates where he says he is more optimistic than he has been in a long time. His father, an activist in the 1970s, said he never dreamed that in his life he would see white people marching in large numbers in support of black people. There is a lot happening here that is positive if you look beyond all the media sensationalism and political rhetoric.
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/5/21279530/ta-nehisi-coates-ezra-klein-show-george-floyd-police-brutality-trump-biden

Riots.

Obviously that's not good. But again, I've been able to live far from the madding crowds and just pretty much not think about these issues. I never thought of that as a great privilege, but I see that differently now. I'm not sure I would have been forced to look at that without the unrest. Of course, I was not personally harmed in any way, so it's easy for me to say that.

Perspective.

Compare this to 1967 to 1970. No major national figures have been assassinated. The Army Math Research Center was not bombed. The troops that cleared Lafayette Square did not fire on the crowd and kill students like at Orangeburg, Jackson State and Kent State (you've probably only heard of Kent State, "Four dead in Ohio," because at Kent State the National Guard made the mistake of shooting *white* kids). At least as far as we know, the FBI is not actively blackmailing BLM leaders and trying to get them to commit suicide (a la MLK). The cities are burning, but nothing like during the Long Hot Summer.

A refresher course...

Orangeburg Massacre (28 students injured, three fatally when state police fire upon the crowd)
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/orangeburg-massacre/

Jackson State killings (12 students injured, two fatally when police open fire)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_State_killings

Kent State shootings (13 shot, four fatally)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

AMRC Bombing (building destroyed, one person killed... by "peace" activists)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hall_bombing

FBI attempting to blackmail MLK, possibly hoping he would commit suicide, but as a minimum leave the public stage
https://www.insider.com/fbi-martin-luther-king-report-tapes-orgies-suicide-2019-5

A bit out of the 1967-1970 time period, but on August 28, 1963, MLK gave the famous "I have a dream speech." Two days later, the FBI Chief of Domestic Intelligence, William Sullivan wrote a memo that said: "We must mark him now, if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this Nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro and national security."

Long hot summer of 1967, major riots across the country with major sections of Newark and Detroit burned
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long,_hot_summer_of_1967
And some images

This, by the way, is where we get the phrase "When the looting starts, the shooting starts." Trump didn't coin that phrase. It was Miami police chief Walter E. Headley in 1967.

I hope we come out of this better, but Covid is the wrinkle that makes it all crazier.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 03:05:50 AM by ergophobe »

buckworks

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2020, 12:30:45 PM »
Ergo, thank you for this. Your perspectives are always nourishing food for thought.

Rumbas

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2020, 01:40:52 PM »
Thanks Tom, for putting things a little more into perspective. I'm pretty sure I will be back eventually and hopefully within a few years when things might have settled a bit.

Also, none of my friends and network are anywhere near what we are getting shown as being the typical Americans. It seems to far away from what I've seen and experienced with all you guys. I might have just gotten lucky and I maybe the demographic here is a long way from the crazy folks we're seeing on TV? I think so.

Brad

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2020, 01:47:36 PM »
I remember that era well:

Spock, Spock,
the baby doc,
leads a peace march
'round the block.
Around him everywhere you look,
are kids he messed-up with his book!
(Mad Magazine)

Rupert

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2020, 02:13:15 PM »
Quote
FBI attempting to blackmail MLK, possibly hoping he would commit suicide, but as a minimum leave the public stage

you got me reading about the MLK assassination:)
... Make sure you live before you die.

ergophobe

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2020, 04:24:02 PM »
It seems to far away from what I've seen and experienced with all you guys. I might have just gotten lucky

Honestly, that's how I became a Francophile. What I experienced in France was so different from the stereotypes.

There is a lot to be ashamed of in America, but there is a lot of positive too. But to put it in perspective, in the media we are an anti-science, anti-vaxxer nation and some of that is deserved, but in a recent poll, 16% of Americans said they would refuse a Covid vaccine compared to 23% of Germans.

Also, as your great countryman Soren Kierkegaard wrote, "the crowd is untruth." In person, you experience Americans as individuals and most individuals are decent. It was one of the reasons Nazi hunters had so much trouble tracking down war criminals. Shorn of Naziism, they fit right in (which is scary)... and sort of undercutting my point. But I do think that headline news plays to stereotypes and the crowd and that distorts things.

ergophobe

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2020, 04:28:37 PM »
PS - that essay by Kierkegaard is essential reading for a moral life. It rocked my perspective as a teenager.

Buckworks in particular - if you haven't read it, I think you will like it. It's only slightly longer than one of my posts when I'm on a rant ;-)

Drastic

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2020, 06:55:46 PM »
>Also, none of my friends and network are anywhere near what we are getting shown as being the typical Americans.

Mine either. What you are seeing in the media are not "typical" Americans. They're the few doing stupid sh## that the media magnifies and shovels out as the norm.

buckworks

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2020, 10:53:12 AM »
>>  "the crowd is untruth."

That essay is heavy going. I will need to read it several times.

The first time through the saying kept going through my head: "No snowflake in the avalanche feels responsible for what happens."

rcjordan

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Re: That 100k projection...
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2020, 12:31:29 AM »
150k