Author Topic: UK energy  (Read 3219 times)

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2022, 02:46:11 PM »
Here ya go, Bol.  A friend of mine (who lives in the Deep South) sent us his recent article.

In light of the fact that some of the citizens in our Northern climes are facing cold weather, I thought you might enjoy reading this week's column submission to the Americus Times Recorder.

On Fire for a Fireplace
I live in a drafty old house. I live there because she wanted it. You see, we had a nice house: the yard was well-landscaped, the paint was fresh, and the roof didn’t leak, much. We could heat and cool it affordably.
Trouble is, it didn’t have a downstairs bedroom. Neither of us ever had any trouble navigating the staircase, but with advancing age, we knew our time would come. We thought about adding an elevator, but she really wanted this house and she bought it.
Good Lord! We didn’t know what we were in for. It’s a pretty thing. Built in 1848, it is only 100 years older than I.  After a couple of years and a lot of money, we just about have it where we want it except for one thing: I am freezing.
At one time, this house had ten fireplaces. Four of them were covered over in a long ago upstairs remodel, so that leaves six.  We had them checked out and they were pronounced DOA by the local chimney guy. In fact, he advised us not to get too frisky removing some of the paper and insulation that has been blocking them for eons. He thinks that the paper is the only thing preventing the bricks from the chimney and a hundred years of soot from collapsing into the house. That would be fun.
The only warm room in the house is the library for it has a modern “ventless” gas heater that, as they say, will “run the rabbit out of the holler.” My bride likes it so hot in there that I can only visit for a few minutes at a time. I’m trying to take the chill off, and she’s roasting peanuts on the sofa.
Conversely, the coldest room in the house is a huge, 1970’s addition that, while not in keeping with the rest of the house, is a wonderful room and it is where I spend most of time. I think we need a fireplace if for nothing else, it will look warm.
 I’ve had several suggestions:

1. Gas logs, to me are about as exciting as kissing your sister. Not in my house.

2. Buck stove:  my house is not exactly the Buck stove type. I can just hear the local hysterical society screaming when they catch a glance at the stove pipe. It would have to be at least 40 ft tall. I suppose I’d have to add a strobe light on top to ward off small planes.

3.  Build a masonry fireplace. From what I understand, $20,000 is just the starting point around here.  With my luck, it wouldn’t draw.

No, I want a real honest to goodness fireplace that I can poke at with a stick. I want to haul firewood and have ashes and soot. I want a big fireplace for a big room… and I want to be able to afford it.

Right now, I’m tempted to buy this electric thing I saw at the big box. It has a “flame” simulated by a crumpled roll of aluminum foil, a sheet of red cellophane and a light bulb.

I’m sorry. Just shoot me or at the very least, pass me another blanket.

And please uncover me for the spring thaw.  I sure don’t want to miss that.

Boyce (Stick) Miller is a writer of dubious distinction. He lives and works in Americus, GA, and he is a legend in his own mind.

BoL

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2022, 07:27:18 PM »
>peak shaving

Pretty much. I get the feeling the energy market will be opened up in the same way the banking market has, the bigger players smooth out their future purchases whereas the likes of Octopus are more akin to Northern Rock's kind of banking, hopefully without the same outcome, playing on the margins and more subject to market forces.

Scotland's one of the windiest countries in Europe, but the small scale stuff makes no sense compared to the commercial scale turbines being put up today. Seems like buying into rippleenergy is worth a punt. Their economics are a bit vague but the general idea is alright.

Yet to look at a years worth of Octopus Energy's variable rate and how a battery could smooth out beneficial costs, it's a really messy number game at the moment. They have an API of prices so it'd be interesting to compare a solar battery charge time vs their half hourly rates.

For my personal situation, it's the same kind of draughty home. I'd had to replace the original boiler when I moved in with a combi, replaced 80 year old windows with double glazing. The ground suspended floor, walls and room-in-roof definitely need some more insulation. Getting a replacement front/back door in the next month or so.

There's grants/loans for that kind of stuff which I don't mind taking, I'm due 13K in child benefit I never claimed which pretty much covers it! The internal wall insulation is the most expensive component but apparently pays for itself within its lifetime.

It feels like energy storage as long as costs come down will ultimately solve/flatten demand. I'm pretty optimistic about it on the wider scale. Recent wholesale prices do look pretty ugly though.

Waiting on quotes for PV/solar thermal and a solar battery. Seems like PVT panels would save the PV/thermal separation but not so many suppliers do that kind of thing. The latitudinal sun is pretty poor in Winter...

It looks like putting money in an onshore turbine is one of the cheapest solutions, but storage is still not quite at the price point it needs to be for an ROI. Of course it's so variable on the right answer for everyone, depending on what direction their house faces, local incentives and all the rest.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 07:37:22 PM by BoL »

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2022, 07:43:53 PM »
In one of the many heatpumps-ain't-gonna-cut-it UK articles I read they said hydronic floor heating was one of the better solutions --mostly because you could heat room-by-room as needed.

I had a friend who used this under the laminate flooring of his motorhome.  Worked great, but I don't know if it held up over the long haul.  Anyway, for particularly problematic rooms:

InfraFloor - Radiant Floor Heating Systems
http://www.infrafloor.com/film/
 
>draughty

Probably why tapestries were a big deal in the middle ages.

BoL

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2022, 09:34:08 PM »
>underfloor heating

Seems like the modern way, seems to work exceptionally well for high ceiling rooms

Am keen to dig up the floorboards considering it's a suspended floor here and it needs insulated anyway.

Got me thinking over the past year whether I should just pass the buck to someone else and go for a new build, but am keen to take it for the team... besides these older houses tend to have a bit more character.

I don't mind investing in it but there's so many calculations involved in ROI, I get the vibe in the next 5-10 years any investment I make now might be outmoded by advances in how to go about it.

In any event, I'll be insulating the ground floor. Can't be programming for another year with cold feet. Not 20 any more :-)

Rupert

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2022, 07:23:28 AM »
New builds used to have no Vat to pay, (used to anyway, think its still so)
So new build can sometimes be cheaper.

I dont know your house BOL, but Mum is in an old stone cottage(almost 200 yrs old) , and I cannot see how an old cottage will ever work, without internal wall insulation. And that takes internal space in a small house already.

When she goes someone will knock it down.

Let me know how the calcs go with the suspended floor... I am sitting over some of that... yes cold feet...

you might need some "comfort factor" in the calcs to come up with the right decision.
... Make sure you live before you die.

buckworks

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2022, 08:53:20 AM »
Insulate, insulate, insulate!

Here on the Canadian prairies our winter temperatures can dip to minus forty and sometimes lower, and high R-factor insulation is the way to go.

This house used to have an outdoor wood furnace but the labour it demanded became less and less attractive plus we hated burning so many trees. A few years ago we removed it in favour of heating with just the electric furnace which had been our backup. We also upgraded our windows from double-pane to triple-pane, replaced our three exterior doors, and had several inches of additional fibreglass insulation blown into the attic. I think the attic is over R-60 now. During a recent cold snap with temperatures of -35 Celsius and wind chills as low as -50, we were comfortable anywhere in the house.

Insulate, insulate, insulate!

BoL

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2022, 09:59:18 AM »
>insulate

Most definitely. Home is heated with natural gas at the moment, floor and roof insulation will be sorted this year. Still finalising wall insulation

>house

1890 townhouse, was originally the manse for the church next door, but now split into two houses. Will definitely be getting wall insulation. Worked out that once the plaster/lathe is removed and replaced, we'd lose only a small amount of space, a square metre or two over the whole house. Have to sacrifice/replace the cornices though. Alternative was to have the insulation in front of the existing wall and taper to the cornices... not keen on that.

Insulating will naturally bring down the heating cost so have been looking at ways to also bring down the electricity cost. Have a decent South facing roof slightly spoiled by an extension pointing out of it from when the house was split.

Getting a solar 4kWh array seems to work out well over 25 years given an install cost of £6K. Batteries on a fixed rate of electricity don't seem to provide much ROI given a 10 year lifespan without the numberwang of Octopus Agile pricing and peak shaving. Cost/watt seems to be on a steep downward trajectory though.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2022, 10:05:17 AM by BoL »

nffc

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2022, 01:57:55 PM »
>work out well over 25 years

Nothing lasts 25 years anymore, covid may be a possible exception.

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2022, 02:44:16 PM »
>floor and roof insulation

Floor insulation has a very poor ROI, IIRC.  Check into insulating the crawlspace walls instead.  It is probably impractical, but extending that insulation down to break the frost line it the best.  That way, you reclaim the natural, ambient heat in the ground under the house.  I'm guessing that's around 10c there (14.4c/58f here).

>roof

Do you have an attic? If so, insulating the floor of the attic has the best ROI.

BoL

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2022, 04:17:44 PM »
>25 years

Guarantees are not too bad, think the last one I saw was 10 years parts and labour and 25 year one that guarantees a specific efficiency - something like 15% less than when brand new.

>floor

Am yet to lift up a floor, just hoping there's enough room to get under and do the whole house from one opening. Agree ROI won't be great, thing is I can feel draughts coming from electrical sockets on the outside walls, best guess it's coming up from the floor.

>roof

Room in roof. There's a crawl space around the periphary, managed to insulate it for the most part but one side of the wall is a bit narrow to get into. Also only 100mm. Think I'll just get the existing plasterboard off, get the crawl space insulated and then use some PV


Also been looking at heat batteries https://sunamp.com/residential/ ... so many configurations to reduce heat/gas/electricity use there's surely room for energy advisors in the same way there is for finance.

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2022, 04:51:43 PM »
>sockets

It is a problem even with our type of construction

Duck Brand Socket Sealers Variety Pack, 16 Outlet Sealers and 6 Switch Plates, 2 Decorative Covers, White, 283333 - Outlet Insulation
https://www.amazon.com/Duck-Sealers-Variety-Decorative-283333/dp/B0040JH21W

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2022, 12:57:41 PM »
>floor

Here ys go, Bol. Underfloor Insulation Installed by a Robot

Q-Bot | Robotic underfloor insulation will save energy and keep your home warmer
https://q-bot.co/

rcjordan

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2022, 03:14:12 PM »

Rupert

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2022, 05:46:39 AM »
>floor
Q-Bot | Robotic underfloor insulation will save energy and keep your home warmer
https://q-bot.co/

My Father in law had that sprayed on the inside of his roof, and the next buyers had difficulty in getting a mortgage. apparently it covers up rot and can increase the chance of rot by  trapping moisture in the wood. At one point we we discussing changing the whole roof.

I guess floors are cheaper.  But its worth checking out the impact. If its the same its a shame, great idea.

https://andywilsonfs.co.uk/2020/11/spray-foam-insulation/
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Rupert

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Re: UK energy
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2022, 05:49:28 AM »
On a second point the cost of Elec is making the case for installing a battery at our house.

all of a sudden a battery could have a 4 year pay back.
... Make sure you live before you die.