Author Topic: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted  (Read 1570 times)

rcjordan

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The first extensive nationwide survey of domestic winter indoor temperatures in the United Kingdom was the 1978, in 901 houses.  They recorded a mean dwelling temperature of 15.8°C (18.3°C in the living room, 16.7°C in the kitchen and 15.2°C in the warmest bedroom of the dwelling)

Historic Variations in Winter Indoor Domestic Temperatures and Potential Implications for Body Weight Gain
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4456148/


I went searching for this because of a headline that said that during the 50s-60s the winter UK dwelling temperatures was 12°C. (Can't find the article.)  My first impression was 'insane!' but then I started childhood recollections of houses of relatives {A} built with no insulation and/or {B} no central heat.

nffc

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2020, 03:13:57 PM »
60's child, very fond memories of so many blankets on the bed that the weight meant you could hardly breath. Not so fond memories of the outside toilet.

ergophobe

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2020, 04:14:05 PM »
I saw this mentioned in connection with the finding that normal human body temperature in the US has dropped.

I remember when I was a kid, by grandparents would keep their house at 68-70 degrees in the winter and we were miserable when we visited (though we adored them).

No way I can find it, but the article was saying that the average interrior temperature in the winter in a house in the US in the late 1800s was 55 degrees.

One sixteenth-century French traveler (I believe it was Montaigne) was surprised when he went to what would now be eastern Germany and when people entered a home in the winter, they took their coats off. In France, they kept coats hanging by the door to put them *on* when you entered, because the home was only slightly warmer than outdoors, but you were less active. In eastern Germany, they still had so much forest that people could burn not just a single small fire to boil a pot, but a nice, roaring, heating fire to make it warm inside. Wastrels!

French settlers in Canada made similar statements. They said that though Quebec was much colder than northern France, because there was wood available, they were much warmer inside.

Now I know people who won't even wear a sweater in winter because they find it uncomfortable and, though this is changing, people who wear coats and ties all summer. Their houses are rarely colder than 70 or warmer than 75 (and when warmer than 75, that's because the heat is set high, not because the A/C is set low)

ergophobe

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2020, 04:29:52 PM »
I can't find the article asserting the 55 degree temp, but here's what Montaigne wrote in his travel journal (in the third person because much of the journal was written as dictation to Montaigne's personal secretary up until M gave him a leave of absence in February 1581). I was able to find this in translation thanks to a searchable version at Archive.org
https://archive.org/stream/journalofmontaig01montuoft/journalofmontaig01montuoft_djvu.txt

My memory failed me on two details
 - it was not in what is now eastern Germany, but it in Baden in what is now and was then Switzerland (substantially less than modern Switzerland)
 - it was not just the availability of wood, but also proper heating wood stoves in lieu of French fireplaces that made the difference

The part about coats is right though and that's the part that made it stick in my mind all these years

Quote
Their custom of warming the houses by
stoves pleased us greatly, and none of our
company complained thereof ; for, after you
have taken in a breath or two of the air
which indeed may seem strange on entering
a room, you are sensible only of a soft and
regular heat. M. de Montaigne, who slept
in a room with a stove, was loud in its
praises, saying that all night he felt a pleas-
ant moderate warmth. In warming yourself
you burn neither your face nor your boots,
and are free from the smoke of a French
fireplace. At home we put on our warm
furred dressing-gowns when we enter our
apartments, but here people appear in doub-
let and bareheaded in the warm rooms, and
put on thick garments before going into the
air.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 04:36:51 PM by ergophobe »

Travoli

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2020, 07:25:46 PM »
There is a mantra: "If you have central HVAC, everything else is gravy."

littleman

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2020, 10:43:13 PM »
Spending my entire life in just above sea level and near the coast in Northern California has basically ruined me as far as temperature tolerance goes.  I remember my family wearing jackets while visiting Nottingham and feeling very cold.  One of NFFC's friends commented that we brought the "California sunshine" with us and there were kids playing in swimsuits.

buckworks

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Brad

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2020, 11:24:15 AM »
Central heating certainly changed the way we design homes.  No "open plan" in Victorian homes, all rooms had doors so you could control which rooms had heat and which didn't.

ergophobe

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2020, 06:23:22 PM »
Spending my entire life in just above sea level and near the coast in Northern California has basically ruined me

When we lived in Berkeley, we became incapable of travel. Everywhere felt too hot or too cold or too humid most of the year.

gm66

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Re: We take advancement in indoor environmental control for granted
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2020, 01:57:25 PM »
It was always cold when i lived in Glasgow and we had the outside loo like nffc. Brrrrr.
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