The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: Rupert on March 23, 2020, 09:30:44 AM

Title: Viral load.
Post by: Rupert on March 23, 2020, 09:30:44 AM
Trying to debunk (I think ) a theory going about.  TLTR is that the more people you pick the virus up from, the worse your illness.


Quote
This is worth a read. It's come from a consultant in the Midlands x


Why do we need to shut places where people group?

Remember this: VIRAL LOAD

There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?

With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn't unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it's very important in COVID-19.

So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don't have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can't breathe and end up in hospital. You'd decided because you were young and healthy it wasn't going to be a problem. Wrong.

Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.

This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn't seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.

This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn't do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.

Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.

If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I'm ready to kill it.

No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no "cure" for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.

If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.

THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:

If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or "more ill". If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don't all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.

A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.

If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.

Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don't think that can be helped.

REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD

It could save your life or your child's.

Coventry and Warwickshire - it's up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I'm serious.

#flattenthecurve
:

I think I am right in saying that the higher the viral load, the worse the impact on the individual, (suggested in the Lancet).  But the number of people that infect you?  not seeing it.
Title: Re: Viral load.
Post by: Rupert on March 31, 2020, 08:22:04 AM
OK, so the difference so far is dosage and viral load.
The viral load does affect how ill you are, but it is not yet connected to the dose:
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/is-viral-load-key-to-understanding-coronaviruss-severity.html


https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/
Title: Re: Viral load.
Post by: buckworks on March 31, 2020, 04:33:34 PM
>> But the number of people that infect you?  not seeing it.

I agree. The concept that a smaller viral load is "better" is likely valid, but the amount of virus you pick up wouldn't necessarily correspond to how many people you were around.

The most effective way to reduce your viral load: stay home.
Title: Re: Viral load.
Post by: littleman on March 31, 2020, 06:37:09 PM
I don't think we know how it works yet, but viral load is probably the reason why major cities are getting it much harder than the suburbs.  There are also many examples of healthy and young health care workers who are dying, so it seems to be a thing.  There was one healthy nurse who had the virus attack her heart.  It may be the total quantity of initial exposure instead of the amount of people one comes in contact with, functionally that would look very much like the same thing in an urban environment.