The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: edo on September 16, 2011, 08:54:58 AM

Title: The Magic of Reality
Post by: edo on September 16, 2011, 08:54:58 AM
Richard Dawkins' new book The Magic of Reality arrived at my doorstep today. Skim-read a couple of pages and I'm convinced it's going to be a modern-day classic.

It's aimed at children but I'd recommend it to any adult as the themes in the book - for example: "Who was the first person?" and "When and how did everything begin?" - should pique the interest of anyone with a curious mind.

Absolute bargain, too, at £10 for the hardback.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Magic-Reality-know-whats-really/dp/059306612X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316162971&sr=8-1

Ed
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: rcjordan on September 16, 2011, 12:00:52 PM
>classic

pfffft! nobody wants to hear about reality. hhh

all joking aside, I'm convinced that denial is one of the most powerful human traits.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: 4Eyes on September 16, 2011, 12:23:40 PM
Quoteall joking aside, I'm convinced that denial is one of the most powerful human traits

Yup - totally agree - its a bit part of why I want to launch that 'philospohy of ignorance' site - not just to point at 'stupid people' and laugh, but examine the presence of ignorance and denial in myself as well.

Ironically, I suspect it has its roots in evolution.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: edo on September 16, 2011, 12:45:13 PM
I think you're probably right that denial/ignorance is an evolutionary trait, Colin.

After all it's much more comforting to believe in an imaginary being who watches out for you throughout your life rather than the cold, hard reality of there not being anyone.

It's clearly also much more comforting to believe that your actions on earth will result in some kind of reward. Or that your life has meaning in terms of the universe.

Studies have shown that religious people are often happier than atheists and for the above reasons I can absolutely understand that. Presumably happier people shag more and produce more offspring.

I think you should go ahead with the site. Would certainly be interesting to read.


Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: grnidone on September 16, 2011, 03:31:11 PM
>I'm convinced that denial is one of the most powerful human traits.

I know that river well.  I've got a beachfront property and yaucht there.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: rcjordan on September 16, 2011, 05:12:52 PM
>reality

Greece, for instance. Hell, anybody with a handheld calculator can tell you that either somebody else is going to pay their bar tab OR they're going to default. Period. End of story.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: Gurtie on September 16, 2011, 07:49:12 PM
but you have to admire them for not giving a toss, really.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: littleman on September 16, 2011, 08:19:01 PM
I'd argue that most of the worlds problems are caused by denial.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: 4Eyes on September 16, 2011, 11:16:29 PM
QuoteI'd argue that most of the worlds problems are caused by denial.

Quite posssibly.

The problem comes when we try to analyse the denial - in controversial areas such as religion and politics, all parties will think they can point out where the other parties are 'in denial' of what they feel  are basic fundamental truths that prove the other parties wrong...  of course, they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: mick g on September 17, 2011, 12:35:58 AM
>reality

I would rather owe 14 billion than 14 trillion ;)

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: grnidone on September 20, 2011, 07:47:30 PM
>Presumably happier people shag more and produce more offspring.

But are they happier because they shag more?
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: edo on September 20, 2011, 07:53:32 PM
Quote from: grnidone on September 20, 2011, 07:47:30 PM

But are they happier because they shag more?

I'd imagine so. For most people sex is a pleasurable act. In evolutionary terms that's not the point though. If you're healthier/happier you will have more sex and that leads to more babies. Thus religion could be argued to be an evolutionary tactic.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: Gurtie on September 21, 2011, 01:00:43 PM
well certainly the bit that bans contreception.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: I, Brian on September 21, 2011, 01:37:35 PM
From Dawkins to sex on the same page. Must be an off-topic record. :)

Dawkins is interesting, but he's fanatically reductionist - become a mirror image of the same fundies he rails against.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: edo on September 21, 2011, 01:42:04 PM
In what way do you think Dawkins is fanatically reductionist, Brian?
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: Rupert on September 21, 2011, 01:43:41 PM

QuoteFrom Dawkins to sex on the same page

Can I talk about big engines then too please?

Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: I, Brian on September 21, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
Quote from: edo on September 21, 2011, 01:42:04 PM
In what way do you think Dawkins is fanatically reductionist, Brian?

Well, his position seems to be "there is no god, just science", and anyone who disgrees seems to be pigeon-holed as a Bible-thumping fundie.

The entire premise of "The Selfish Gene" is that we are nothing more than automatons for our genes. The wider human experience becomes an irrelevant by-product. And that was in the days before he *really* start hammering it out against the Christian Creationists.
Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: edo on September 23, 2011, 05:21:05 PM
Quote from: I, Brian on September 21, 2011, 02:25:18 PM
Quote from: edo on September 21, 2011, 01:42:04 PM
In what way do you think Dawkins is fanatically reductionist, Brian?

Well, his position seems to be "there is no god, just science", and anyone who disgrees seems to be pigeon-holed as a Bible-thumping fundie.

The entire premise of "The Selfish Gene" is that we are nothing more than automatons for our genes. The wider human experience becomes an irrelevant by-product. And that was in the days before he *really* start hammering it out against the Christian Creationists.

I agree that's a perception a fair few people have about Dawkins but I feel it's unfair. He consistently argues in favour of the human experience and the incredible diversity of life. Hence his newest book is called The Magic of Reality.

In The Selfish Gene, Dawkins describes biological processes, just as Einstein described different ways to understand the physics of the universe. The fact is we are automatons for our genes, just as gravity does bend space/time. That doesn't mean to say our lives have no meaning - far from it - just that there are forces at work that we have no control over. I really don't see why he should be criticised for just stating scientific fact.

As for hammering it out against the creationists, good on him. I put evangelical Christians on a par with psychics. Both expoit the vunerlable and ignorant for monetary gain.

Title: Re: The Magic of Reality
Post by: littleman on September 23, 2011, 07:15:55 PM
Re: religion and sex

My old neighborhood was working class and mostly Catholic, there was plenty of sex and plenty of premarital babies going around.  Later I went to a fairly liberal university, most of the students there were (at least temporarily) agnostics/atheists and very liberal. In contrast the university were largely frustrated celibate.

You compare the data between two places like say Texas and Finland and the Texans have more sex at a younger age, they also have more teen and early adulthood babies, which is just the the opposite of the dominant values of the area.  The differences go deeper than just the decisions to use contraception.