Being in the UK, I have no idea who Ben Stein is, or what he does, or his views beyond this. So to those who do, is this typical?
Apparently the White House referred to Christmas Trees as Holiday Trees for the first time this year which prompted CBS presenter, Ben Stein, to present this piece which I would like to share with you. I think it applies just as much to many countries as it does to America ....
The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.
My confession:
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are, Christmas trees.
It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it. It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a creche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from, that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God ? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Hurricane Katrina).. Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave, because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said okay.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit.
If not, then just discard it.... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is
in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
Ben Stein
ermm...... unless I read that wrong, once he has got over the 'reasonable' bit of 'lets all be respectful but sensible', (hard to argue with that) ... the overall theme of the rest of it seems to be that God has got pissed off with us 'trashing' him, and as a result is allowing natural disasters to wipe out thousands of people.
It is not an uncommon view historically - in fact it seems to be pretty much the explanation that any religion uses to explain why God doesn't prevent disasters.
I wonder if he is he also suggesting we should all start building Arks... or maybe everyone in Brighton should leave immediately and not look back over their shoulders for fear of being turned in a pillar of salt.
.. or I am reading it wrong?
It's a pretty arrogant and objectionable rant in my eyes. Borderline delusional in ones place too... The US Ann atheist country? I think he's confused between atheist and agnostic (which it still really isn't)
Quoteeveryone in Brighton
Why Brighton? Is there a story to that?
Brighton has a strong Gay and Lesbian community - to the 'fire and brimstone' wing of religion, this could easily be confuse with Sodom and Gomorrah... probably
According to Wikipedia, Ben Stein is an advocate of intelligent design, and believes that Darwin's Theory Of Evolution was a contributory factor in the Nazi Holocaust. I'll give him his due; that last bit is very clever propaganda.
jb (for the record, an agnostic athiest, and a believer in evolution)
Should have know, the "God bit" would get a hang up :)
I read it as Wars tend to be religious.. get over it...
And broad terms like that.
I am not a God man myself, but do not object to any that are, everyone is entitled to there option , delusional or not.
Sigh.
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_ben_stein_christmas.htm
"A small portion (perhaps a third) of each of the above texts was indeed written by columnist and TV personality Ben Stein and delivered by him on the CBS Sunday Morning program on December 18, 2005 (you can still read the original piece on Stein's website).
The rest was haphazardly cobbled together by person(s) unknown from various anonymous writings circulating on the Internet for the past 10 years.
For example, the quote attributed to Billy Graham's daughter Anne Graham Lotz is actually a paraphrase of statements she made on September 13, 2001 in an interview with Jane Clayson of the CBS Early Show. The subject matter of that interview was not, as alleged in the email, Hurricane Katrina, but the terrorist attack of September 11, 2001.
The claim, appended in 2011, that Stein was inspired to write the piece after the Obama White House allegedly referred to Christmas Trees as "Holiday Trees" is false on two counts: 1) at no time has the White House substituted the term "Holiday Tree" for "Christmas Tree" in recent years, and 2) Stein wrote it in 2005, three years before Obama became President."
QuoteI read it as Wars tend to be religious.. get over it...
... then you really must have read it differently from me - written by him, or by others, with malicious intent or without, it is structured argument which builds to make a controversial point
The 'reasonable' intro, coupled with the more controversial main section is just a rhetorical device.
QuoteShould have know, the "God bit" would get a hang up
Aww come on now, you know better than that. The whole point of argument IS the 'God bit' - so not really a 'bit' in any kind of sense.
Whether it was written by him, or to discredit him, it is silly.
The intersection of politics and religion is much more divisive in the US, so I think the American Core are staying out of the thread instinctively. Ben Stein is well known in the US as a conservative thinker/writer/commentator and he's been at it for many years -- he was a speech writer for Nixon
Thanks Littleman.
And Jetboy
Quote
The rest was haphazardly cobbled together by person(s) unknown from various anonymous writings circulating on the Internet for the past 10 years.
4eyes, you are right, I should know Better :)
QuoteThe intersection of politics and religion is much more divisive in the US
yeah - you can say that again :)
I read somewhere that US church attendance (of one form or another) was something like 6 or 7 times higher in the US than the UK - not sure if it is true or not, but if it is, it is quite an alarming gap from either point of view.
Agree with Jason. People can believe what they want to believe. But I don't have to respect them for basically ignoring scientific evidence and not coming to terms with the harsh reality that our existence means next to nothing to the universe.
There is a place in the world for religion, but it's purely to meet up and help other people less fortunate than you. Everthing else is medieval nonsense.
Bill Maher
http://m.youtube.com/?rdm=4p9mbiglc&reload=3#/watch?desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DKAvDtPz33w0&v=KAvDtPz33w0&gl=GB
Does God have no other means of communication besides sending ambiguous signals through hurricanes?
I'm pretty sure that if God wanted prayer in the schools, Katrina would have been followed up by an apparition of angels saying that more Katrina's would follow until we shaped up. And God, being omnipotent, would send a hurricane Katrina a week, in and out of season, until we shaped up.
Meanwhile... evidently God liked us better when we had prayer in schools, but we didn't let African Americans vote or intermarry with white people?
QuoteThe intersection of politics and religion is much more divisive in the US, so I think the American Core are staying out of the thread instinctively.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Can we shut it then, it makes me feel uncomfortable.
I am not, like many posting here a Godly person, but I do have respect for their views and their right to have them.
I am not sure some of the words being used here are showing any respect, and with 143 members I am sure there are many who feel the same.
Appologies for starting it. I personally thought the idea of different creeds was a positive idea, whatever the authenticity of the piece turns out to be.
Bill Hicks was a prophet. Nuff said. ;)
Quote from: Rupert on January 17, 2012, 08:22:56 AM
Can we shut it then, it makes me feel uncomfortable.
I am not, like many posting here a Godly person, but I do have respect for their views and their right to have them.
I am not sure some of the words being used here are showing any respect, and with 143 members I am sure there are many who feel the same.
Appologies for starting it. I personally thought the idea of different creeds was a positive idea, whatever the authenticity of the piece turns out to be.
Agreed. Locked.