The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: littleman on January 19, 2012, 06:37:35 AM

Title: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: littleman on January 19, 2012, 06:37:35 AM
I find the events surrounding these bills really extraordinary.  Obviously there are powerful interests on both sides of the bills, but the way the Internet was used to push people into opposition may be the beginning of something new.

Re Politics & the TOS: I'm trying to discuss the mechanics of the way people were rallied, not the validity of their cause - but this is one of those rare occasions where politics may have a direct effect on how we make our living on the web.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Brad on January 19, 2012, 01:42:07 PM
Hmm, I'll try to tread lightly on the politics.  What Wikipedia and Google have are bully pulpits - lots of users, eyeballs and hangers-on, and bully pulpits are very effective against Bills that have trouble standing up to public scrutiny and are being purposely rammed through a legislative body fast in the hope that nobody will notice.

Google probably could have just tried to fight this with their own lobbyists, and probably did, but in the end they and their allies had to resort to a public appeal.

I expect this to happen more often, but I'm not sure how long it will remain effective before cause fatigue sets in with the public.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 19, 2012, 06:35:22 PM
Reddit started the idea, pressured some congressmen directly, then cajoled Wikipedia to join in a boycott. G just sort of aligned itself as it got to be a certainty that some sort of uprising was going to happen.  I'm expecting some sort of payback from the politicians who clearly had their asses handed to them yesterday.  While this was a populist victory, I keep reminding others that it was something of a perfect storm.  The issue wasn't really piracy but the 'potential for future censorship' being carried out by those who have already shown their ham-handedness many times over the past few years. Even Grandma knew better than to trust them and I think THAT was the key factor.  The other part was that the major players on the other side are all held in contempt by the general public.  I mean, really, congressmen, lobbyists, RIAA --you'd have to throw in a few pedos to make it any worse.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: grnidone on January 19, 2012, 07:17:59 PM
>I expect this to happen more often, but I'm not sure how long it will remain effective before cause fatigue sets in with the public

That's just it.  If it is overused, it won't be useful.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Rooftop on January 19, 2012, 10:12:41 PM
Maybe someone stateside can help me with this. Was SOPA/PIPA just the result of decisions being made by ill-informed people, or was the whole thing as corrupt as it looked from here?
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 19, 2012, 10:20:44 PM
It smells.

"Why is it that when Republicans and Democrats need to solve the budget and the deficit, there's deadlock, but when Hollywood lobbyists pay them $94 million dollars to write legislation, people from both sides of the aisle line up to co-sponsor it?"
–Reddit Founder Alexis Ohanian on CNBC

"In short, piracy is certainly one problem in a world filled with problems. But politicians and journalists seem to have been persuaded to take it largely on faith that it's a uniquely dire and pressing problem that demands dramatic remedies with little time for deliberation.  On the data available so far, though, reports of the death of the industry seem much exaggerated." -Cato Institute

http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/internet-regulation-the-economics-of-piracy/

<added>
Our own Government Accountability Office

"Three widely cited U.S. government estimates of economic losses resulting from counterfeiting cannot be substantiated due to the absence of underlying studies."
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-10-423
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: grnidone on January 19, 2012, 11:37:06 PM
>I'm expecting some sort of payback from the politicians who clearly had their asses handed to them yesterday.

Maybe this:  http://techland.time.com/2012/01/19/feds-shut-down-megaupload-com-file-sharing-website/
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 20, 2012, 12:20:26 AM
Anonymous returns fire....

http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/19/anonymous-megaupload-department-of-justice/

<added>
Black March:

http://i.imgur.com/0rvY1.jpg

"Protest schemes that don't cost the participants any inconvenience, hardship or money remain the most popular, despite their ineffectiveness." --Snopes
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Brad on January 20, 2012, 12:51:36 AM
>smells

The reek would drop a hog at 500 yards.

IMO Fox, NBC and ABC TV networks are underreporting everything about SOPA/PIPA and the backlash because they are owned by the very companies that back those bills.  The electronic press has been co-opted by their entertainment industry owners.  Dangerous.

Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Woz on January 20, 2012, 02:00:13 AM
>I expect this to happen more often, but I'm not sure how long it will remain effective before cause fatigue sets in with the public

Reminds me of a quotation attributed to the Composer Hector Berlioz - "The effectiveness of the Orchestral Bass Drum is in inverse proportion to its use."
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Gurtie on January 20, 2012, 09:15:31 AM
>> TV networks are underreporting everything about SOPA/PIPA and the backlash

wheras over here it was for some reason the lead news item that wikipedia were going black for a day, in fact, had wikipedia not joined in, then I suspect only about .1% of brits would have known anything about it.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 20, 2012, 02:29:29 PM
>had wikipedia not joined in

Over here, reddit had actually brow-beaten individual congressmen into (seemingly) withdrawing support in the days prior to declaring a boycott.  It was that individual success that led reddit corporate to officially join in and decide to do the blackout.  Then the members started pushing for other allied sites to join and it spread from there.  I'm sure there were concurrent movements elsewhere that brought in, say, Lolcats & BoingBoing but I'm not familiar with them.  Anyway, even with reddit's limited success, IMO it was Wikipedia that made the first big impression on the general public, then G.  Mullenberg added momentum but it was already rolling when he threw in his support.  I never saw much mention of WP being involved until well after the fact.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Rooftop on January 20, 2012, 04:26:53 PM
I think that the major difference Wikipedia's involvement made over here is that is gave the dumber ends of the media an easy to grasp handle on the story.  Suddenly the story became prime time.
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: Brad on January 20, 2012, 10:32:26 PM
When you have LOLcats against you, you just better fold. 
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 20, 2012, 10:47:09 PM
>you just better fold

"Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor hell a fury like an interweb without cats."
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: rcjordan on January 21, 2012, 07:03:12 PM
>cats

This is making the rounds today.

http://imgur.com/NRUa1
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: buckworks on January 21, 2012, 09:43:29 PM
http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/lamar-smith-sopa-copyright-whoops
Title: Re: PIPA & SOPA
Post by: littleman on January 31, 2012, 07:13:10 PM
This puts the numbers in perspective:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/01/sopa-protest-day-the-largest-digital-protest-ever-infographic/