http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/dec/15/philadephia-police-taser-girl-video
I think that's crazy heavy handed and justified. The lesson is really simple; you don't fuck with the police. Not at all. Not a little resisting, no scuffling, no wrestling or pushing. Any resistance can be met with anything up to and including lethal force. That's the way it is in America, and elsewhere. People should know and expect that type of thing. That cop is upholding the law. It's his job. He should not be subject to physical violence while attempting to do his job.
That girl looked to be resisting arrest and could potentially hurt him. His options were to beat the shit out her and grind her into the cement, with his knee on the back of her neck, or taser her. Taser is safer for him. You have no idea what caused this, or if any of her friends might jump him. If it was a little girl cop versus a big bad guy, there wouldn't even be an issue.
You don't fight the cop, you fight in court.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2091277/Police-shoot-man-10-times-Carls-Jr-parking-lot.html
The second batch of 5 is crazy
Well, I agree Rob. Behave or get the taser. Totally justified imo - she needs to do what the cop tells her or feel the consequence.
Here, the cops are way to soft and if they pull anything but a pencil, they hit the front page of the news. Crazy, they should be allowed to use tazers and maze a lot more if ya ask me.
I am with DB on this one.
If you are facing a cop with a taser and a gun it is not the time to 'resist arrest'
re: the shooting
Of course, they could, and maybe should, have acted with a bit more moderation, but if you have tasered someone and he has pulled out the probes, refused to surrender, and started to swing a metal bar at you, I would say an extremely violent reaction is justified. You have to react quickly, and shooting to wound only is not perhaps the safest thing to do in those circumstances.
Shooting 5 times might be excessive - but I suspect I would have done the same given the same choices.
No, I have not started reading the Daily Mail and supporting the Tories - but I have less tolerance for violent thugs than I used to have.
.... and I always had little tolerance for mouthy, aggressive, 14 year olds
I am sure there is more to the background on both these stories, but they both seem to illustrate the same basic issue - there are times when it is acceptable to protest against authority, and there are times when it is seriously unwise.
Yeah, I watched that Carl's Junior video 3X... in my opinion, they were totally justified. Obviously the guy flipped the people in the burger place out enough a bunch of cops showed up and surround the place. That should be the first clue something isn't right. You hear the classic hands up yell from the cop. The guy doesn't give a sh##. And hes carrying a pipe(?) or something like hes ready to use it on the cop. The cop's tazer misfires. The bad guy is momentarily stunned, then makes a move toward the cop, away from the camera, so it slightly hides the movement. Multiple cops shoot him, not one single shot. All this points to a wacked out dude with a pipe threatening innocent people, ignoring being surrounded by cops with drawn guns and dogs, and threatening an officer.
He loses.
>when it is acceptable to protest against authority
This means something different to me than resisting arrest. I believe in non-violent protests, civil disobedience, passively resisting arrest. But don't take it out on the cops. They are usually just doing their job upholding the laws that societies come up with. If they aren't right, then people should change them. But you can't take it out on the police.
Look, I'm not saying the cops are right. I'm saying they are people. That's like beating up a waitress because you're dinner was cold. This is a society. We have rules here. Follow them or change them.
Talking to a friend who was part of the pilot program to introduce tasers to the national parks, he looked at it this way: it gives them one more non-lethal option. So he said before tasers, when confronted with someone who was drunk and beligerent and looking like he was going to start throwing punches and kicks, their only real option was to pull out nightsticks and beat the guy senseless, with a high probability of serious injury to the beligerent, and also requiring the LE ranger to get pretty close. With the taser, they generally harm both parties less.
They have gone back on the requirment that all people armed with a taser have to get tased before they can carry one. I guess there were a certain number of injuries and it ain't fun. But at least most of the old-school guys have been tased once themselves just as training.
LOL - I'll keep that in mind if I ever get the urge to try it!
Quoteto protest against authority, and there are times when it is seriously unwise
What I meant was the same as you really.
eg.
- times it is unwise to protest against authority include 'when being arrested by armed police' in 'relative' democracies such as those that most of us enjoy.
- times it might be justifiable would include 'when living in a regime that is tyrannical and needs over-throwing, and the odds of successfully resisting arrest are reasonable' (which, I hope, applies to none of us on here)
Sadly, many people today seem to assume that the police are always a weapon of 'them' against 'us' and that resisting arrest is a 'right' in war against 'them' - which I suspect is what was behind the 14 year old girl's reaction.
To quote a lot of people I would normally disagree with..... I blame the parents :)