http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcXX60tZZow
Fair enough... hehehe Everyone up here calls them snowmachines, everyone outside Alaska seems to call them snowmobiles, and "sled" is the only term I know that works cross-border. hehe
Outsider: "Snowmachine? What's a snowmachine? Is that so you can make snow if you don't have enough?"
Me: "*argh* Snowmobile. Sled. Whatever. You know what that means, right?"
That dog picks up some good speed, doesn't he? lol
Ha, yes, snow machines are what you find on the ski slopes.
I should have titled it The true meaning of Dog sledding"
Ahhh! Indeed. hehehe
See now, nobody says just "sledding" if they're talking about mushing/dog sledding. Just "sledding" either means children sliding downhill in little snow sleds, or riding snowmobiles... I'll teach you to speak Alaskan sooner or later. ;)
yeah, snowmachine = snowmobile = sled, and it is just how she said it: Alaskans call them machines, normal people call them snowmobiles and people who actually ride them, call them 'sleds'.
Although as a (dog) musher we called it 'dog sledding'... and just 'sledding', in context... because we ride a (dog) sled, so that makes sense as long as you aren't talking to a snowmobiler.
Love the video:)
Quote from: dogboy on December 11, 2010, 04:41:10 PM
Although as a (dog) musher we called it 'dog sledding'... and just 'sledding', in context... because we ride a (dog) sled, so that makes sense as long as you aren't talking to a snowmobiler.
See, I thought of that after I posted, but then I've never been privy to the secret language of mushers, so I wasn't sure. lol
>ten-most-hilarious-sledging-incidents-in-world-cricket/
a few good ones in there:)
...with respect to 'sleds', the difference between a 'sledge' and a 'sled' is that a 'sledge' is a crude sled-like thing that usually carries seriously heavy gear/supplies. It might be '2 green saplings lashed to a canoe' type of jury rigged thing... or something build by a carpenter... or even a welder if it is steel, which nowadays, up North, is usually the case. A sled, though, is something that is much more refined and not nearly as tough. Even 'freight sleds' are much more refined than a sledge.
Freight Sled: (I used to drive tourists down black diamond ski slopes in Colorado using this sled)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Fimages%2Ffull_size%2Fdansled.gif&hash=7ae2e1d1e05362e7ffc3e93f1f93a436545a9b2e)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Fimages%2Ffull_size%2Fdannose.gif&hash=e0c97e767dbe1155388a4043ce4c7f2097f76ac6)
Race Sled:
There is a cloth bag, that is big enough to hold a dog and some gear, that is missing so you can see the structure...
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Frisdon%2Fnew-bridal4.JPG&hash=909d621ebf3d3a7de914236a14f42871c6b69602)
Not mine, but I had something similar, but longer, for more distance...
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.danler-sleds.com%2F_images%2Fhornet.gif&hash=faeb1b974d55f138485ec57beb6ff09ece8c01f0)
Sledge: (not mine, wish it were though:)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Filikecider.com%2Fantarctica%2Fimages%2Fft_loaded_sledge.jpg&hash=d8c69fe2e570806c8934935a8889a919bf136ed0)
...so, as you can see, sled:sledge :: canoe:raft
Bombing the backcountry...
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Fimages%2Ffull_size%2Fhairpin_krabloonik.gif&hash=2a122db1275712f6355165653038a3ba9f6858f4)
...thats what a 500lb sled looks like, sideways, as it goes around a hairpin turn at about 30mph. heheheeh this picture doesn't do it justice. That is the second turn.... the first turn is straight down the face of a Black Diamond ski run in Snowmass CO.
Quote(I used to drive tourists down black diamond ski slopes in Colorado using this sled)
My boyfriend used to do night time dogsled tours in the winter up here (aurora tours, they called 'em)... his snowhook slipped one time, his team took off, and the elderly Japanese woman riding in the basket ended up dumped head-first into a snowbank at high speed. He had to run down to the turn and pull her out of the snow.
The next day he sees her talking to all the other people in the Japanese tour group, pointing at him and his team... he was afraid he'd broken her neck or something, and was about to get fired, but instead, everyone else in the group wanted to hurry up and get a ride before their bus left. ;D
Mivox, then you are the only one that could possibly understand how badass we were back then: we weren't allowed to carry hooks because when we flipped (I flipped 8 times that season) the passengers would likely die if they rolled over a hook... so I had to make all 10-14 dogs lie down, on command, in order to get off the sled to do anything:) Even Amazing Ben's jaw would drop if he ever heard that:)
BTW, for those that don't know, that is a snow hook I'm holding in my right hand:
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs882.snc4%2F71504_10150287553385252_587880251_15591337_6470431_n.jpg&hash=878055cdf8aa7d784a1ed770f4126bf93d43d031)
...and they are dangerous as hell. Especially when you are dragging on your face, bouncing off trees in the middle of the night, with a headlamp... how about it Mivox?:) With real big teams, I take 2 hooks. And you never walk on the same side as you set the hook, in case they pull it and it starts cartwheeling as the sled comes by you. (Another reason 2 hooks is dangerous, but 1 hook wont hold anything more than 10, so it's the lesser of 2 evils.)
Honestly, I'm kinda glad he'd switched to snowmachines by the time I met him... lol So, I've never been dragged anywhere or injured in any way by a dog (or dozen). ;)
But I gotta say, with all the mushers I know, the idea of a whole team lying down on command is pretty fscking mindboggling. Dan had a leader (obviously after the japanese grandmother incident) who'd actually stop when he yelled at him (causing the rest of the team to kind of end up in a pile behind him), and nobody even believes it when he says that.
Laying down on command... ::) You really should have gotten video proof of that, you know. hehehe
>stop when he yelled at him
Now THAT is a lead dog!!! I never had a leader that would just slam on the brakes and let a pile up happen ...and yet that is the very thing that you really need them to do in that situation. Instead, I used to tie myself to the sled... which is arguably dumber than even getting on a big team in the first place... in case I lost them in the back country. I figured being drug by a dislocated shoulder was better than what was behind curtain number 2.
BUT... when I was out in CO... I flipped in the that first turn on the big slope, and dumped out my passengers, but the dogs kept going and the sled uprighted itself with no one driving it. Knowing I could never catch them, I ran to the edge of the ski slope and just jumped, landed on my butt, and slid all the way down to where the dogs would eventually meet me (after they did the hairpin alone.) The timing was perfect and as I got to my feet, they ran by and I stepped on the runner, like I was Indiana Jones:)
>video proof
Before I showed pictures, you all just believed me, with just the slightest of eyebrow raising... now you want videos?!?:) hehehehe I have some pics at home that I keep saying I need to get scanned. Maybe I do...
>I'm kinda glad he'd switched to snowmachines
Yeah, I think you are right. When things go bad with dogs, they can go very bad. I took some precautions but just about everything I did was against the book. If I didn't come home no one would even think about going to find me for 4 days, and if they did, they would have no idea where to even to begin looking. Who am I supposed to tell? I ran dogs 9 months out of the year; who wants to listen? I knew I was without a net most of the time (which I obviously thrived on) but it really was inherent to the sport if you are going it alone. Basically, sledding was THE most insane thing I could even think up at the time... and 15 years later, I still haven't seen it's equal. I don't think there is one. It is a superlative.
Well, before the time he fell off the sled & the leader stopped for him, there was the time he fell off the sled & had to hike after their tracks for a couple hours at -30 (or so he says, might have only been -20), until he found them with the sled hung up on a tree. Not sure if that was a previous leader, or maybe that was when he decided to try and teach him how to stop. lol
I think everyone with a dog team I know up here has at least one "and this one time I lost the team" runaway dog story... None with quite as slick an ending as yours though. :) I believe you... But video is always a good backup. hehe
I have said to a number of mushers, "All mushers are insane." Not a one has eve tried to deny it. ;) But I think most of them aren't quite crazy enough to tie themselves to their sleds. You must win some kind of prize for that. haha
>& had to hike after their tracks for a couple hours at -30
...exactly, and that story could just as easily ended up with everyone dead. You run, you sweat, you go hypothermic, your feet freeze, you dig in to make a shelter and you never wake up... and your dogs end up in a ball, tangled in lines and fighting. Yeah, unless you are a sprinter on a closed loop trail, you need either a leader that will either stop on command, or that can pull a u-turn on command... or a 3 foot section of mainline, looped around your non-hook hand:)
I lost the team" runaway dog story
yeah, I've never met a hardcore driver that didn't have a story like that. I think it has to be the absolute biggest fear among drivers. The dark, the isolation, ground storms, getting lost, whatever, pale in comparison to the fear of letting go of that handlebar.
...I dunno. The dogs in that first video Rupert posted don't look too worried. Maybe they have it right after all;)
ok - so whats the deal with huskys then? are the untrainable, or is it they're best not trained? I've seen them in places like Finland where although they're pretty, um, wilful they do seem to start and stop more or less on command, but they're just doing little runs with tourists so they could just be fluffy alsatians or do the same circuit daily for 4 months of the year for all I know....
>I've seen them
Did they act like mine?
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/2416499
....because if not, then I would guess you are talking about dogs that might be used to drag around that 2000lb sledge I showed you. Not saying it's not cool but what you saw was more a donkey ride on the golf, than what I did. What I'm talking about are racing dogs. Mine were mid-distance dogs. But that 17 dog team you see there was tied to an ATV, which I put in gear and let them drag with resistance. I don't use the throttle and neutral is way too fast. Eventually they will pull just me and a 30lb sled.
Remember, there are no reigns, no way to actually steer them.... it's all voice control, and you run many times at night with a headlight that barely sees your leaders. Add to that big mountains and mega storms at the passes, and you start to get the picture.... what you have here is a freight train. Considering that most people couldn't walk their dog around the block off a leash.... well... if you are a hyper competitive, control freak, like me, a big race team is like this is crack:)
well they kind of act like that, but they w're undoubtedly the donkey ride variety because you probably aren't allowed to take tourists out and kill them.
We did wonder about staying here last year http://www.engholm.no/ - not for the dogs, just because it was nicely remote and the cabins looked cool, but Rob got a contract for that week so we ended up having three rushed days in Copenhagen instead.... quite tempted for this year, although since they seem to bark all the time I think it might not meet 'relaxing' as a criteria!
Believe it or not, I used some of those dogs for touring. I present to you, my now defunct touring company, Wild Dog Mushing Company:
http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/343256
...as seen on The Today Show:
http://www.myspace.com/video/rob/the-today-show/1303167
...as seen on E! TV with Brook Burke:
http://www.myspace.com/video/rob/e-tv-with-brook-burke/1303232
...and my first truly viral video, with 80,000 plays: Wait until you see what comes out of this gigantic dog house
http://www.myspace.com/video/robvalli/100-lbs-of-pure-dog/48502
...but when you watch these, note that usually there aren't more than 8-10 dogs and 2-3 people on a huge sled, with the brakes maxed full on, even departing. In the Video on E!TV you get to see the beginning of 'fast', on the last downhill shot, but those were really touring dogs, not pure race dogs, like these guys were, just chilling around my truck, at a race on an island in the St Laurence River, above Quebec City:
http://www.myspace.com/video/robvalli/my-sled-dogs/343419
...playing loose, in the kennel:
http://www.myspace.com/video/robvalli/play-time-in-a-sled-dog-kennel/10676780
anyway, yeah, this was the essence of sledding for me...
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc4%2Fhs807.snc4%2F68781_10150287556625252_587880251_15591350_250734_n.jpg&hash=84d95250772a77e1fe2b9ec10e0e796b0dd3e6b6)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-ash2%2Fhs076.ash2%2F37118_164245285251_587880251_6653956_2372166_n.jpg&hash=de21be7ddbfbd60d2d1d3ef92fee939970bcb941)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc1%2Fhs009.snc1%2F2875_164245310251_587880251_6653960_6064970_n.jpg&hash=11e0056cb47c6bdf8b11601b886079fa5d420259)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-sf2p%2Fv364%2F219%2F104%2F587880251%2Fn587880251_4707293_247.jpg&hash=9cd27e7c0bd9adc95d4e6065e54ebf3354fffa5e)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc1%2Fhs009.snc1%2F2875_164245375251_587880251_6653972_8249670_n.jpg&hash=c26382e38f141254220b228b8f6bd8f2c42fbf17)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-ash1%2Fv364%2F219%2F104%2F587880251%2Fn587880251_4707304_3477.jpg&hash=fab0a45cb5e7458bb619b357045d7e13f2570fc9)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fphotos-ak-sf2p%2Fv364%2F219%2F104%2F587880251%2Fn587880251_4707303_3134.jpg&hash=297c5ef642bb1e0555b8035ea93ed6432ad111e6)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2Fimages%2FKamchadal_Race.jpg&hash=567be9f1ae6183014167366d805a4141184eee0d)
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dog-sled.com%2FKamchadal%2Ffull_size%2FDSCN0223.jpg&hash=621d8ef523c634ec2dc01e099efba7219c027cf2)
...that was life on a grander scale. Most difficult thing I ever did. Most arbitrary as well. Life on fire.
Quote from: dogboy on December 13, 2010, 01:16:12 PM
unless you are a sprinter on a closed loop trail
hehehe... Funny you should say that. Lately he keeps talking about getting a sprint team together. Something about being able to sleep in a warm bed after every day of racing or something. ;D Can't say that I blame him there... I can't think of ANY outdoor activity that sounds appealing at -5ºF or colder (been ice climbing and snowmachining at -5, which isn't too bad, really).
I told him he'd better make sure he has a couple of new (gas-powered) sleds before he gets back into dogs though, because they'll be eating all his motorized toy money once he gets a full team together. hehe
And NOW I notice there's a second page of posts... heh@dogboy: Ha! I remember you talking about trying to figure out how to get yourself and all your dogs/gear/etc. over to Russia. Yep, I definitely thought you were a crazy bastard. ;D
Quote from: Gurtie on December 13, 2010, 02:14:18 PM
ok - so whats the deal with huskys then? are the untrainable, or is it they're best not trained?
I think when people say "huskies" are untrainable, they're talking about making them nice little pet house dogs, which no type of husky is particularly well suited for. They're all high-energy dogs to one degree or another, often strong-willed, and most people don't give them enough exercise to keep them happy, much less are strong-willed enough to override the dog's will. THEN, if you go to an AKC (or UKC, I suppose) conformation dog show, the registered huskies you see there are
completely different breeds than the race bred dogs dogboy's talking about... Even so, the show-bred huskies still mostly fall under "high-energy, strong-willed", but since they're bred to live in kennels and prance around show rings they're not usually quite as psycho. ;)
Malamutes and other cargo dogs, on the other hand, are still strong-willed from every one I've seen, but they are to race dogs what draught horses are to thoroughbreds or arabians. The big, heavy, slow animals are always mellower than their high-speed cousins.
>appealing at -5ºF
that is maybe the perfect temperature, actually, for running dogs. Snow is nice at that temperature.
>better make sure he has a couple of new (gas-powered) sleds before he gets back into dogs though,
got to have something to groom the trail, if he is going to sprint:)
>they're talking about making them nice little pet house dogs, which no type of husky is particularly well suited for.
ah, if that is what he meant, I agree...
Basically 'Alaskan Huskies' are not a registered breed... that black pup (and later, dog) is 1/8 German Shorthair Pointer.... but pointers that were bread to run, not hunt. Greyhounds, Salukis, Setters have all been bred into the old Siberian Lines and the Indian dogs to make a sled dog mutt that is not defined by any physical attribute, but by what they do.... sprint, mid-distance, distance.
So my dogs were crazy, but they were also trained... but it all starts with good genes and breeding for function, not form. But only some would be decent house dogs. Most would just destroy it in a few hours, bouncing off the walls and peeing on whatever they couldn't break.
>>Wait until you see what comes out of this gigantic dog house
Always loved that video. Was that 16 puppies???
Quote from: dogboy on December 14, 2010, 01:31:17 AM
>appealing at -5ºF
that is maybe the perfect temperature, actually, for running dogs. Snow is nice at that temperature.
I could totally see that. You don't have to worry about ice shattering under your axes because it's too cold, and you don't have to worry about windburn/frost bite, because you're not moving *that* fast. Running dogs is probably the IDEAL thing to do at -5. :-)
Quotegot to have something to groom the trail, if he is going to sprint:)
Hell, the mush-heads around here groom the neighborhood trails for their distance dogs... If you want to run sprint, there are separate trail systems closer to town all groomed up for them all winter. hehe They don't call this area the dog mushing capital of the world for nothing. ;-)
QuoteBasically 'Alaskan Huskies' are not a registered breed...
I have to keep remembering that when people say Husky... lol That's why I made the sled-husky vs. show-husky point. Nobody but mushers or people who know mushers think of the crazy race dogs when they say "husky". hehe
(to everyone but dogboy... ;-) Sled dog "huskies" range from scrawny little-bitty 20-30lb. sprint race dogs, to the mid-size distance race dogs dogboy had, to big ~80-100lb. freight pulling dogs, none of which are "Huskies" in the show dog world. And most of them look like misfit mutts even though they're all custom bred to the same degree show breeders customize their dogs. But sled dogs are bred for performance & health rather than looks. It is a separate world where dog breeding is concerned.
QuoteBut only some would be decent house dogs. Most would just destroy it in a few hours, bouncing off the walls and peeing on whatever they couldn't break.
And that's why, sadly enough, the Fairbanks borough dog shelter is always full of "huskies" they foster out to recreational mushers who send back a description of how they would perform in a team for their adoption "sales pitch". Most of them would never make good house dogs, and most of them stay on the adoption list for as long as the shelter has room. (The local shelter doesn't euthanize until they run out of room and foster homes... there's an "Alaskan husky" there today who's been on the shelter's Petfinder list for a couple of years.)
Anyhoo, I'm not even anything close to a musher. I have a Belgian shepherd and a pitbull... they're like Laurel & Hardy. :-) I just get long winded about the race dogs because I live in the middle of mushing country, and so many people (like the interviewers mention on dogboy's Today Show clip) think mushing is mean to the dogs.... Those crazy dogs are NEVER so happy as they are when they know they're going for a run. :-)
Ehhhh. I also just talk a lot some times. hehehe (shutup 4eyes... ;-)
Quoteshutup 4eyes...
I couldn't find a gap to 'shut up' in
;)
Quote from: 4Eyes on December 14, 2010, 12:21:28 PM
Quoteshutup 4eyes...
I couldn't find a gap to 'shut up' in
;)
I gotta win some kind of prize for that! ;D
>gigantic dog box
yeah, that was a good one:) Basically what happened was I had 2 sisters (who looked alike) that came into heat 4 days apart. I then bred them to the same stud. One female had 10, the other 9, about 5 days apart, resulting in what really appeared to be one huge litter. After they are mobile they tend to hide in little spaces instead of a big house, which is why as they grow eventually they start to get stuck, like the last little guy on the right that never really made it out, you can just see him wiggling... so I think you are seeing 18 1/2:)
>-5F
you got it. The dogs can hit red line without fear of freezing their lungs or over heating.
>there are separate trail systems closer to town
yeah, I raced the Fairbanks Circuit of races but never in Anchorage, but I handled for our 3rd place Fur Rondy Open team in '95.
>sled-husky vs. show-husky point
yeah, you definitely got it.... some Huskies are 'registered', like the Siberian Husky (and the Greenland Husky), with all the right physical properties but none of the racing/running attributes we need. And then there are the Alaskans... full of hybrid vigor, mix matched eyes, different heights, weights, conformations. One is for show, one is for go ...and there is essentially no overlap.
.
>One is for show, one is for go ...and there is essentially no overlap.
I was actually unhappy when I heard that Border Collies were put in the AKC...Sadly, there will soon be "one for show, one for go" -- or in their case "one with brains, one with not" -- very very soon.