The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: JasonD on August 20, 2014, 06:45:38 PM

Title: Ferguson
Post by: JasonD on August 20, 2014, 06:45:38 PM
As a simple Brit who has had limited experience with the police here, and no experience with the police anywhere else, can someone explain why Ferguson is bad?
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: littleman on August 20, 2014, 07:00:51 PM
Wikipedia  has a good synopsis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

Are you looking for opinions?
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: Drastic on August 20, 2014, 07:35:20 PM
Personally I think a lot of dynamics were/are at play.

1) militant attitude by police. This is getting worse lately, have been talking with people about it locally here before this event for a while now. Police seem to have a no-grey-area attitude, eventually to their detriment.

2) racial tensions. That place is predominantly black, with a predominantly white police force. Perceived or real threats or injustices, race tension is high.

3) "I'm a bad-ass" and entitled attitude by young people these days, often fueled by crowd mentality. Kids are just plain stupid when it comes to police (or any authority really), which is why I think we are dealing with #1.

I think several times someone from either side in the situation had an opportunity to make a better decision for a much better outcome.
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: JasonD on August 20, 2014, 07:42:06 PM
> Are you looking for opinions?

Yup. I understand the facts, I just don't understand the outcome... I don't know if it's due to me being a white Brit in an averageish kind of area, but the experiences out there seem so alien (from all sides) to anything I've encountered, I am just lost for words... (and understanding as to why?..)
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: littleman on August 20, 2014, 08:09:55 PM
Ok my opinion:  Two hot headed men got into an altercation.  One was a big black young man, the other was a white cop with a gun and the law on his side. 

<edit>
I agree with Dras.

Re point #1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U
Warning, very disturbing content.
This was in New Mexico.  The man who was shot was mentally ill and was camping illegally.   Since 9/11 there has been a paramilitary swing in local police departments where they treat citizens like potential combatants. 
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: JasonD on August 20, 2014, 08:16:38 PM
The video:

I just watched it and to say I am shocked is an understatement of understatements. WTF happened to the America I loved as a country? ;(
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: littleman on August 20, 2014, 08:40:48 PM
I don't really have an answer for you, but I believe the situation is dynamic.  The police in Albuquerque have come under national attention and scrutiny. I think part of the answer is technology, many want all police officers to wear mandatory cameras while on duty.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/11/headlines#4119
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: Brad on August 20, 2014, 10:00:36 PM
I can't say it any better than Drastic did.

Abuse of power is corruption no different than taking bribes, yet we overlook that too easily. Somehow, a lot of cops think you have to obey all their orders instead of all *lawful* orders. An important distinction.
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: Brad on August 21, 2014, 12:26:18 PM
Some background sources on militarizing the police in US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/turning-policemen-into-soldiers-the-culmination-of-a-long-trend/376052/

Also playing a part: economics.  Many police departments uniform allowances have not kept up with costs so cops are looking for durable one uniform for everything unforms .  Old fashioned dress uniforms are getting abandoned for BDU's, a combat uniform.  People, including cops, do act differently when wearing formal vs. Informal clothing.
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: Drastic on August 21, 2014, 12:29:35 PM
>Old fashioned dress uniforms are getting abandoned for BDU's, a combat uniform.

Excellent point, hadn't considered that.
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: Mackin USA on August 22, 2014, 12:36:43 PM
JasonD:

We need to WAIT for all the facts. Could take weeks or months.
We have a "Law & Order" mentality where everything must be solved in an hour.   IMO
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: JasonD on August 23, 2014, 03:20:03 PM
> We need to WAIT for all the facts. Could take weeks or months.
> We have a "Law & Order" mentality where everything must be solved in an hour.   IMO

I completely agree on both points. On a humanitarian level though, and as someone who knows the US relatively well, (and to be frank, loves it) but isn't American, it simply shocks me.

The closest I have seen here were in the early 80's and then again in the 90's with riots in Brixton, Hackney etc (Historically poor and black areas of London - although both are massively expensive now).

It wasn't pleasant but was a country mile away from what's happening there.
Title: Re: Ferguson
Post by: littleman on October 13, 2023, 12:48:28 AM
Don't re-watch that video, but one of the results from it is that New Mexico became the third state to not have Qualified Immunity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity) after Colorado and Connecticut (and New York City).