...so, with the Earth's population cresting 7B this year I started thinking my family should invest in some farmland. And if the sea level is going to rise as well, it better be a farm high up in the sky, in terms of elevation.
Funny enough I found a guy that is interested in trading his 100acre farm in Colorado, for our joint in Ft. Lauderdale, and I'm giving it
serious consideration...
Quote
Description: This is 98 acre farm/ Ranch located between Cedaredge and Delta in Colorado Grandfathered water rights, Lush, Irrigated fields with great alpha hay production 150-200 ton annual. This property has Good barbed wire cross fence with gates. Tongue Creek goes through the entire property and runs year round and is outlined with Oak and Cottonwood trees. Along with excellent views of the Grand Mesa from a 2 bedroom 1 bath home With large kitchen and oversized bathroom with in-door jacuzzi tub. Property includes 3 wells that can suport 9 homes w/ one acre gardens. 50x100 inslated steel building with waste oil heater ,20kw back up generator, complete shop w/air comp, welder, vehicle lift all eqp included! . Plenty of room to use for horses,cows, or to store all the farm equipment that is included worthover $50,000 If you add it all up 50k eqp - 125k 50x100 shop/barn -2bd 1ba home 100k -this is less than 6k per Acre .You can not find fenced Irrigated land with 3 wells for 6k per acre! Look around this is the Best Deal on the Market! Eckert is located between Delta and Cederedge off Highway 65.
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...any thoughts in general?
Beautiful farm and countryside.
You a bit of a survivalist, dogboy? I've been reading on SHTF situations. This farmland, combined with your arsenal would be pretty valuable if something goes wrong.
Farm land may be a very good idea. I suggest you do some searches for climate change predictions for different parts of the US before buying.
does look lovely. Hard work though. Especially a mixed smallholding.
>This farmland, combined with your arsenal
...'Exit Strategy', meet 'World'. It looks like a regular old farm ...but upgraded with a buried network of machine gun turrets:)
Worst case:
You can't eat devalued cash. Gold is good because it's liquid, but is not an end in itself. Fancy cars, bikes, houses, stocks, bonds hold some value... but at some point you have enough. I remember when the Earth had 4.6B people on it. Something is going to give at some point. Anyway, my only question is, 'is it big enough?'. Seriously. Could you live off that land/water/space if unemployment really did go to 50% for 10years and they were raping and looting like in the New Orleans flood, shooting at the choppers? Sounds extreme but 'what if?' The reality is things could get ugly quick.
High tides:
The water is literally rising at my place in FL. In 50 years, it may very well be under water. Sounds funny but I think its going to happen. Every year I've been here the highest tide was an inch higher than the previous year. I couldnt imagine a hurricane surge at the same time. That doesn't mean I can't sell it by then, but still... imagine things really do go to hell. Our biggest cities are on the coast. Lots of farmland that would also get swamped if we had a rise in sea level.
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...Either way, I just can't see how farmland will go down in value. And Colorado isn't a bad place to be, although I wouldn't plan on moving there... just get it set up properly, and let someone else actually work the ground. Just a place. Another investment. But with a bomb shelter on it:)
>I suggest you do some searches for climate change predictions
I did, and as expected they were all over the place. I decided at 5000'+ in the middle of CO I was safe(?) from sea level issues and tsunamis, but if we have a polar shift, or the oceans stop flowing, or Yellowstone erupts... well, I tried:)
'is it big enough?'
...honestly, I don't think it is. I think you need more like 1000 in that country. Maybe some lakes or rivers, trees, game, etc. But the properties are just about the same $ value and a swap is very doable. Maybe I'll leave the benz and $50k cash, and grab that Toyota I see hanging around the shed, like a barn cat....
QuoteIt all depends on your personal "worst case scenario". If your envisioned worst case is an economic depression similar to that of the 1930s--with a relatively intact infrastructure--then you might conclude that there is no need to relocate. (You can just "stock up" and stay put where you are.) But if your worst case is a full scale whammy--such as a terrorism campaign that levels cities and/or causes a long term grid-down societal collapse, then you will probably want to move to a remote, lightly populated farming region with plentiful water.
- http://www.survivalblog.com/retreatareas.html
Yellowstone = fucked up
There is a phrase I like "buy land, they have stopped making it"
You can get free land in Kansas. For real.
Had some long talks yesterday and funny enough my father didn't seem that interested in the trade aspect, and overall thought maybe a much bigger place in the Carolinas... something that costs 1/2 as much per acre and we have 5-10X as much of it, overall... would be better. He is looking for a mild, long growing season and while the idea of trading is interesting, it's not necessary.
Basically, a totally different place than this one.
I understand his thoughts. He'd rather be in an area where he has plenty of water, not one with rights to a scarce resource. Forest, fields, lakes, streams, something going on 1000 acres. Land like this (I think) is more in the $2-4k/acre range. The issue is many of these 'plantation' style farms are being billed as high class horse farms, so I think they are going for a premium these days... or whatever the re-established premium is these days... somewhere between $2-6M, which is too much (for us) to sink in a backup plan, that we probably aren't even going to visit too often.
>>>Had some long talks yesterday and funny enough my father didn't seem that interested in the trade aspect
i think your father is right dogboy
Well, a few more thoughts on the subject...
Since that uni-bomber guy said in his survival blog, "Unless you are among the uber-rich and can afford to buy an elaborate fully hardened bunker with HEPA filtration deep in the Smoky or Appalachian Mountains with a five year food supply, then I firmly believe that you will be safer west of the Missouri River", I did a little research on a company featured in Wired Magazine who specialized in building fully hardened bunkers with HEPA filtration systems: http://www.bomb-shelter.net/ ...and I found some nicer property deep in the Smokies.
Prices aren't as cheap as I thought, though.
just to digress for a moment on this subject......
do you know something that we don't like an early warning sign from the sky or maybe inside information from some government source or have you always suffered from paranoia ?
Oh yeah - Go Mick go!
>have you always suffered from paranoia ?
well, 'crazy' is an infinity defensible position:)
eheheh the reality is, just like the 'who's buying Gold thread', I'm just interested in where people are putting their dollars these days. Gold, stocks, bonds, land, etc. Granted the bomb shelter is a little over the top, but good farmland sure as hell isn't. We already have commercial and residential property. We have a fairly diversified portfolio. But if everything really went to hell, it's all paper. So, like with most things, I'm half joking... and half as serious as a heart attack:) But 10:1 I'm going to initiate a land purchase this year.
>do you know something that we don't
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We are projected to be pushing 9B in 2045. Hell, adjusted, those water rights alone maybe worth the asking price now. The mighty Colorado River doesn't even get the sea anymore. By 2045 I could imagine people in California paying me not to use the water so they could have more downstream.
Digression RE population.
Demographers expect population to peak at the end of the current century and then to start declining.
Population would be in freefall in most of the developed world if not for immigration. Countries like Japan, with low immigration, worry about replacement.
Essentially, once you get infant mortality down, population tends to decline after a lag. Fertility goes down quickly, but increased lifespan causes a population bulge in the near term.
Yes, I agree... but it is precisely this rate of 'decline' that I'm worried about:) I think the 'bulge' is going to 'bust' and when you see the flip side of this graph, it's not going to be because a bunch of old single people peacefully died in their sleep:)
I don't know. Like I said, crazy scenarios aside, I just see value in good land. (And we just put more money in the S&P, so we will need to re-balance anyway.) I also like to hunt and fish, and I like seeing pretty views, and I could imagine living some of the year in the country. I've actually spent more time in the country than in the cities, and have the feeling I wont want to retire in a mega city of the future. Big tracts of land are ever increasingly hard to find. I hunt on 1500 acres of private land owned by some friends in PA, and I like the feel of a piece of property that size. And the ones I'm looking at are bordered by National Forest or State Park, so maybe 500 would do.
I think it's a safe of investment as any, and it has the upside of actually being valuable in worst case scenario. Plus it would be nice to use it. Any investment which has a component of pleasure needs to be valued in that light, imo.
Quote from: mick g on January 02, 2011, 12:11:49 AM
do you know something that we don't like an early warning sign from the sky or maybe inside information from some government source or have you always suffered from paranoia ?
Its an under-current in American culture, that and not trusting authority.
One thing that has always stuck with me after I read the King Ranch story was a quote from Richard King himself.
"Buy Land and Never Sell."
Then how does this fit w free land in Kansas? I hear that more and more people from the country will migrate to cities in the near future. At the same time, someone needs to feed those cities. So I guess what we will see is less farmers, cultivating more ground, more intensively(?) or is it just a ratio thing and in absolute terms population in the country will still grow, just not as much as the cities will.
From what I understand, eastern Russia is seeing a massive exodus, as people move out of the country and into the cities. I guess subsistence farming isn't as glamorous as it is cracked up to be:)
DB, the big crunch there is petroleum based fertilizers, they have allowed for bigger yields to accommodate growing populations while total farm land is finite. But many say that eventually petroleum based fertilizers are going to get to be too expensive to use as the cost of oil grows. So, eventually food will become very expensive in terms of feeding the poor of the world. Also, the cost of shipping food is going to cause food to be grown more locally too, so that's going to have a huge effect on how and what people eat.
Meat is interesting, because some meat has a huge amount of grain in to meat out while others aren't so much -- I be Heather could talk more about this, biit I think beef is like 15 to 1 where chicken is only 2 to 1, so just switching the type of meat people eat has a huge affect.
I think populations will settle down as the world industrializes, in an agrarian village having children is an asset because you could put them to work in the field, but in a first world country you have another mouth to feed, another education to worry about. We'll probably peak at 8 billion and then shrink back down. In many industrialized countries they can't get their young adults to have enough children to keep the population levels at current levels, France, Japan, and South Korea for example.
Edit: Sorry, it looks like you guys already covered some of this re:Ergophobe's post.
>Then how does this fit w free land in Kansas?
Define "this"...do you mean "this" as in the King Ranch quote, or "This" as in the thread?
And, I was just mentioning the free land in Kansas because you wanted land...*shrug* no other reason.
>I hear that more and more people from the country will migrate to cities in the near future.
Already happened. Kansas and many other typically agrarian states are having brain drains of kids going to school and then leaving to get jobs. As farmers get more productive, you need fewer of them.
not sure what its like in the US but in the UK its very hard to earn a living from farming now, of any type and any size. Large retailers tend to have a stranglehold on purchase prices and unless you can also diversify you don't earn a lot from growing crops/animals and selling them.
Luckily the interest in expanded agri industries (ice cream making, wildlife trails and kids paygrounds, direct farm sales, etc) is increasing which is keeping a lot of farmers in business right now.
This all means if you want to run a small farm for any purpose you either need to work really hard at it or be prepared to lose money. I'm not sure you could buy farmland for 'preparedness' here and not make a huge loss on your investment if it were just part of a longer term plan. Of course, if the shit hits the fan then its a worthwhile investment but if the shit really hits the fan then you could feed a famiy of four or six quite easily on less than an acre given you had access to water and some solar power and actually worked the land properly. No need to buy something huge unless you also have a plan to make money from it.
So fundamentally I don't think it adds up to buy a lot of land unless you have a plan. I would still love to own a farm here, but only if I could do everything else I wanted on one or two days consultancy work a week. I will, however, be happy to accept some free land in kansas just so I can sell it off at huge profit to people who visit my survivalist blog/amazon aff site :)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110101/ap_on_re_as/as_japan_population
QuoteThis all means if you want to run a small farm for any purpose you either need to work really hard at it or be prepared to lose money.
Sweetheart, that applies to farming in general! Farmers and fishermen gamble more than poker players in Vegas...
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
...so, as you may recall, I went out to Colorado and checked out the farm I originally posted about and it really just seemed like the wrong place for several reasons.
Today, I am still looking for property and zeroed in on a place in the mountains in N. Georgia on a lake called 'Chatuge'... Dras/rc, you guys ever been out this way? It looks good on satellite.
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Basically it's as high up in elevation as you can get East of the Mississippi, and it's as far south as the mountain ridge goes. And in the center of this area are a few man made lakes, surrounded with a little private land, circled by National Forest and State and Fed Parks...
My plan is to use this as an excuse to look at property and go on one hell of a ride on the superbike. It's about 12 hrs by car, or about 4 on my bike at night with no lights on. hehehehe just kidding:) But strategically speaking, I like the looks of this place. Surrounded by mountains, good water supply, moderate winters for the mountains, decent growing season, good hunting/fishing.... and it's a pretty place, a nice place to unplug. I could just imagine myself nestled in my fallout shelter/gun turret... I mean 'wildlife observation deck' sipping coffee:)
I just lowered the price on my house down here and if/when it sells I'm ready to change gears and reinvest in something a little more remote. Anyone ever been up this way? I've been 'around', but not 'through' this area.
Never heard of it, but that area is beautiful. Crisp, clean air, not far from the Smokies. Lots of mountains and trees.
I suspect it's very much like surrounding areas which I am familiar with - lots of tree huggers, secluded, lots of fun outdoorsy type stuff to do, but can be pricey.
If you can find something cheap, probably a good spot for what you want. Perfect for hunting/fishing I suspect, but the growing part I'm not sure. I have no knowledge of growing whatsoever, but the mountainous terrain is often rocky and it's cloudy a lot, and I see a lot of red clay in your photo. I'm sure it's do-able but I doubt it's as easy as elsewhere.
Be careful with lakefront, find out what the levels are like going back for years. Right now one of our lakes is very low leaving many (most?) docks on all dry land. Can be a good time to buy though, but just factor in the risk of what it might be like when you need to sell. The lake is smallish so this may not be a big boating lake making this less of a factor. In your photo the level looks down quite a bit.
>Never heard of it
me neither. I picked it looking at the whole country. I like that green doughnut around it and that the only flat parts, in the middle, are private. I've even seen properties bordered on three sides by NF.
>pricey
yeah, I noticed that. I'm going to look for something foreclosed. The idea is to sink the money in land, not a house... maybe even a barn, or something little that eventually would become a guest/bunk house. I still have a really nice 35' 5th-wheel (with pop-outs and a toy garage in the back) I'd like to leave up there until I build a place, so a barn or a big garage would work.
>areas which I am familiar with
You have any places in mind that might fit my bill? Places you like, in particular? Any tips?
Well the area you're looking at is perfect. If I were to build or buy something in the mountains that type of area and surrounding is great. The only problem is the cool areas with stuff to do cost. That and the wife seems to like civilization for some reason.
My dad would probably have some good ideas, he has a business location in Western N Carolina, and knows the area better than I. I'll ask him.
Please do.
I think I'm going to head up there by the end of the month, depending on weather. I'm looking forward to getting the bike in the mountains and curves.
Will do. Trying to get him to join here as well, you echo many things he's been saying about our financial situation. He's been saying them about 20 years.
If you get up this way, hit me up. I'm about 1.5 hours North on I-85 from Atlanta. Well, on the Ducati about 50 minutes.
Lake chatuge would be good, more thought of by me as to being in NC, because the NC side is closer to us and not that far from Asheville. I don't really like being right on a lake for a SHTF scenario - to easy for an intruder to slip up on you by boat, any time day or night. If you were in a hollow surrounded by steep hills on three sides - you only have to defend the front.
My vote is for the thermal belt area of Western NC. up around Rutherfordton, Marion, Spindale, Isothermal college in the thermal belt. buy something on a stream, has long growing season for the area, moderate winters, still only about an hour or so from Asheville, or GSP, little further to Charlotte.
The area should have low real estate prices, yet is close to modern hospitals, etc.
Dogbuy is thinking right, though - along western carolinas, NE ga, also possibly around Elizabethton, Tenn. or other places along the NC/Tenn border
Between robbinsville NC and and Maryville Tenn would also be good. could spend the weekend at http://www.snowbirdlodge.com/ and ride around, gorgeous. Joyce Kilmer National Forest. If you get over the border in Tenn, there is no state income tax.
Robbinsville is about as close to nowhere as you can get and still be in the southeast. Lake fontana is gorgeous, but mostly federal land. Robbinsville has like a dollar general and two fast food places and two gas stations, that or something like that. Absolutely gorgeous area, IMO. Winters more harsh than the thermal belt.
The thermal belt is real, and winters are milder there.
BTW, don't know where the person asking this question is from - but these backwater places in the southeast can be a whole lot like stepping back in time. Might be a rude shock to someone not accustomed to small town, rural, mountain folks.
Check that area for drought, DB. Some of the counties in NC, TN, & GA have been so hard hit that they have had to truck in drinking water.
<added>
http://waterwatch.usgs.gov/index.php?map_type=dryw&state=ga
<added2>
2008: Water Runs Dry in Orme, Tennessee as Drought Worsens
Orme is located 40 miles west of Chattanooga, 150 miles northwest of Atlanta, and a few miles north of the Alabama border.
http://www.naturalnews.com/023006_water_drought_natural_health.html
Quote from: JasonD on March 22, 2012, 07:09:27 PM
I have absolutely no idea at all on what is being discussed here but I can say DrasticDad, a pleasure to meet you. :D
Thanks.
Not sure what I have to contribute to core issues, but I have done a great deal of reading and thinking about the economic future of the US, where we are, and where we are headed.
Sir, like Jason, please allow me to welcome you to our little piece of the Internet. It's a pleasure to meet you. I'm not quite sure if he's famous, or notorious, but I am big fan of your son, and respect him for what he has achieved online.
As far as your recommendations, rest assured I will research the areas you mentioned thoroughly. Thank you for going through the hassle to contribute to my old thread here.
As far as contributing, this forum is obviously technically oriented, with a strong bent toward SEO and internet marketing. That said, sometimes I think we get a little too focused on technology and what we are doing, and we miss some of the big picture of what's really going on in the world and ways of making money, which is what drew some of us into SEO in the first place. And despite what I may project, I do get worried about some of the people in here and I post fairly extreme opinions with hopes of drawing attention to issues I feel may threaten our well being.
But, in here, it's more like water cooler talk. I also have to admit I instigate quite a bit of this and I may be the only one in here that even knows what MF Global is and why it matters:) We also try to avoid politics, religion, and basically anything that might cause people to be uncomfortable and leave. So if I may be so bold to suggest a path forward, I would say to try and bring the conversations back to how it could affect all of us. Obviously there is a fine line but in general we are people who like to watch where the puck is going and get there before the next guy, so big picture discussion, in that light, is always welcome.
Rc, thanks for the heads up. That is precisely the information I need to know about.
Quote from: dogboy on March 22, 2012, 11:06:02 PM
Sir, like Jason, please allow me to welcome you to our little piece of the Internet. It's a pleasure to meet you....how it could affect all of us.......we are people who like to watch where the puck is going and get there before the next guy, so big picture discussion, in that light, is always welcome.
Pleased to meet you also, and my son is a great guy that I also turn to for advice at times.
As to where the puck is going, it is not going to a good place.
If I were to attempt to make specific projections with a time line, I would most certainly be wide of the mark. However, there are some generalities that I believe are likely.
Central banks will continue to print until there is some form of collapse. They are now coordinated in their efforts. It is pretty clear that the perma-growth model is not fiscally sustainable, and governments around the world will kick the can for as long as possible. The best and appropriate alternatives are not politically acceptable.
For years, I thought there would be some form of SHTF scenario, but I now believe that although possible, it is unlikely. Further, the central bankers of the world have already kicked the can down the road further than I expected with huge expansions of their balance sheets.
We may well at some point see riots in the streets as you have in Greece, but the social order has not broken down there - at least it has not at this point.
To understand where the puck is going, you have to clearly understand where it has been and where it is now.
There has been a huge debt bubble that is worldwide, and it has popped. It cannot be reinflated. All that can happen now, is for it to hopefully deflate gradually, in such a manner as for the entire system to keep functioning.
All money today is backed by debt. We have in the US and other countries of the world, debt based monetary systems.
Debt however has costs. It has creation costs, and carrying costs. The debt has reached such a level that we can no longer sustain practical costs of creating and servicing increased levels of debt. The current system in the US, is that of securitized or "bundled" debt. Basically, this can only overcome the original cost of creating (under the current system) if the product is misrepresented. A key to understanding our current situation is the fact that no systemic changes are being made. Nothing is being resolved. Instead of having too big to fail, we have bigger too big to fail.
Pretty much, governments of the world, at the national, state/province and local levels, along with many businesses, insurance companies, various parts of the financial sector, pension funds, institutional investors, etc. all base their projections for their budgets, revenues, etc. on increased growth.
Increased growth will not be there, any more than the unemployment statistics are realistic and true.
So, if you are unable to print money, governments increase taxes, and layoff in an attempt to get closer to balance - increased taxes diverts money from the private producing sector, layoffs have less workers putting money back into the economy and you have a downward spiral that only ends when all of the bad debt is completely cleared.
Greece cannot be saved. The people of Greece are not getting any of the money from the bailouts, the money is going to pay off noteholders. Portugal is next, Spain is probably too big to bail-out, Italy for sure – basically the Eurozone is close to falling apart. Hey, they are roughly equivalent to the US in GDP and population, it will affect the world financial sector and world economy depending on how and what happens there.
The levels of debt are quite high, too high for the debts to be paid.
Next up, in two or three years – Japan.
And if we don't quit deficit spending in the US, the US die will be cast by the time Japan goes, we will already be so far gone that our default is inevitable, although it will be another several years before actual default occurs. Although not technically a default, printing enough to pay the US debt (which we have already started, by buying T's) and hyperinflating the currency will essentially be a default for all practical purposes.
I have commented to my son, more than a couple of times – every thing you know, all of your adult experiences as relate to financial and work matters have been within a bubble. A bubble that cannot be reblown.
There is no good trade at the moment, that I am aware of. One really needs to be hedged and diversified. Right now we are looking at return of investment more than return on investment.
I have seen well reasoned cases to the effect that Bernanke in fact brought the equities markets down in order to drive money into Treasuries. Long term, however, equities may do better than other sectors because the markets should rise with printing.
I do think that the original post about producing land being a good thing to get into now or in the next several years may well be a good trade.
Gold should probably do well, but if you notice is headed down at the moment. I'm close to buying some but have not yet pulled the trigger.
My business is doing well and I hope to have some money that I need to put somewhere in the next several years. But, damned if I know where to put it.
Look at it this way, we're probably not going to know what the Eurozone is going to look like till 2015 or so, and Japan is going to be getting pretty interesting about then, and by that time it will likely be obvious to most that the US is in serious trouble.
So, while I cannot say exactly where within the above scenario that the puck is going, I can tell it is not a good place.
Hello DrasticDad, and welcome!
I recommend some reading around http://www.chrismartenson.com/ if you haven't discovered it already.
I'm another one who is uneasy about the global financial situation but I live in Canada so some of the stresses are different. But to a great degree, anything that happens in the US will tow us along with it.
Our small town would be a relatively good place to be if TSHTF, but one big problem is that none of our grandchildren are close.
DD, I couldn't have said it any better myself; I totally agree with you.
In fact, I now think there is only 2 polarized positions: slight variations of this perspective... and total ignorance and denial. I can't find anyone with a high level view of situation that can make a strong comprehensive argument to the contrary. And I actually look, because if there is a weakness to our argument, I want to understand where it is.
As far as where our currencies/countries are headed, personally, I don't think there is any way to avoid the iceberg anymore. And I agree deflation is the better (and least likely) of the 2 scenarios. But I emphatically maintain there are things that can be done now to help protect against the coming storm, and I'm taking some big steps toward that end, including: bumping up our holdings of silver and gold to 10% of our total wealth (back in early Jan, after the markets hit bottom) exiting stocks and bonds, and aggressively trying to sell our Florida vacation property and reinvest that money into a long term rural retreat somewhere I'd like to visit a few times a year, even if the world doesn't end, to enjoy the outdoors and hunt and fish.
It's too long a story to inject here but I was born in the backwoods of PA and despite a fancy private school education, I've spent about 1/2 of my adult life in extremely remote areas including UT, AZ, ID, AK, CO, among other places... and so the idea of living in a small cabin in the woods, with hand pumped water, isn't a far stretch of the imagination for me, because I've already done it repeatedly, and actually prefer that lifestyle to the one I'm currently living, in many ways...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/272235_10150700928570252_587880251_19705691_266569_o.jpg)
Do I think I'm going to HAVE to live in a shotgun shack to survive? No. In fact, I'm also thinking about moving to the Cayman Islands to weather out the storm. My guess is that an island full of insanely rich people will be probably one of the best places to be, if you want to just write off the rest of the world for 10 years and just enjoy yourself, like nothing is happening. But I still wouldn't mind some nice land and a cabin somewhere in the US. I LIKE being self sufficient. I LIKE being off the beaten path. In other words, even if there was no collapse, I'd still like to have a getaway. Like you said, I hedge everything.
...but before I start going off on a rant, and to bring it back to what I was saying before about looping the conversation back to the forum members here, let me give you a simple real life example of what I'm talking about. As I mentioned, back in December, when I saw Gold and Silver dropping, I started doing serious research to educate myself on the subject of PMs, because I was going to buy enough to sink a small boat, and I wanted to know what I was getting myself into. Over the course of a few weeks I amassed quite a bit of information and written copy on the subject, so I decided to turn it into a blog, with hopes of eventually getting the site indexed and eventually ranked in order to move traffic and make some money, as the masses became aware of the situation and begin searching online for information and/or products.
See what I mean? Granted my little blog sucks, and I doubt I'll do anything with it, but I might pick it up again in a little bit, now Google knows it exists. The idea is to build a site now, while it's not ultra competitive and then let the traffic come to me, because I positioned my self early. Here is an SEO that is doing the same thing: http://bugoutbag.com/ ...this is what I'm talking about. As SEOs, this is how we deal with the issue and ensure we have an income stream as things that we used to make money on slowly spiral downward with people's disposable income. Everyone is going to lose in the future. But some of us are going to lose much less than others because they were prepared.
(https://th3core.com/chat/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fpolls%2F001119297%2F633748800142447960_ZombieApocalypse_xlarge.jpeg&hash=15a7ee7193ef54d1bd8521302b3899cd7ea736bf)
Quote from: buckworks on March 23, 2012, 06:16:21 AMI recommend some reading around http://www.chrismartenson.com/ if you haven't discovered it already.
And hello to you buckworks. Chris is one of the several dozen or so sites that I commonly frequent. Sharp guy, and able to verbalize it well. I at one time thought of Canada as being a good place to bugout to.
However. It is a global problem, I am comfortable in my home, have my firearms and family nearby, so will ride it out here.
If things get worse than I'm thinking, those mountains aren't far away.
Quote from: dogboy on March 23, 2012, 02:12:52 PMDD, I couldn't have said it any better myself; I totally agree with you.
heh, heh Always enjoy dialogue with someone who understands the situation.
Quote from: dogboy on March 23, 2012, 02:12:52 PMEveryone is going to lose in the future. But some of us are going to lose much less than others because they were prepared.
There will be an overall decline, but some will do better than others. And a few, will do quite well. Depends on how well we can position ourselves, at this point - I wish I had a better grip on what specifically to do, but feel I am somewhat prepared.
>what specifically to do
I hear you. Right now, I'm just looking at the big picture. I move cash to metals, and am trying to dump the Florida vacation home. Guns and ammo were never an issue with me, as we have enough to weapons to literally fully outfit a small army... over 50 guns for just about any conceivable situation.
This is just for the autos...
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I have more for shotguns, hunting rifles, and pistols.
People laugh (uncomfortably) and ask why in the hell would you need that much ammo, etc. And since they are ignorant enough to ask the question I have to explain that guns don't work without bullets, and that bullets are kinda expensive. And if in short supply, they will become extremely expensive. So I have enough to go hunting every day, with friends, for 10+ years and never have to worry about running out of ammo. And if I need to, I can sell it or trade it, because ammo prices just keep going up; A case of 12 gauge ammo is more liquid than a roll of Silver Eagles up where I'm from in PA.
This is what it looks like where I'm from:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/75305_10150320859170252_587880251_16137817_6957587_n.jpg)
...and I assure you it won't look any different if our currency collapses or not. And all those people that scoff at guns, and hunting, etc. usually shut up as they realize that if THEY are wrong, they are absolutely fucked, because they won't know what to do in the city faced with supply shortages... and absolutely no idea what to do if you put them in the woods. They'll have nothing, and no exit plan, and they will live in fear of violence and starvation. If you think I'm overstating the case, think 'Katrina' but on a much larger scale. As soon as things got hairy, you didn't see 'neighbors helping neighbors'; they started looting, robbing, killing and raping. Everything broke down. The govt didn't come to save them and the police choppers got shot at when they tried to fly over the worst areas. It doesn't take much to bring a city to it's knees.
And if I'm wrong? Nothing happens and I have a gun collection slowly appreciating in value, and I sell some bandoliers of .223 to buy myself a new Ducati:) But if I'm right, I'm eating steak, while all those people that scoffed at me stand in soup lines...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/149049_10150322005620252_587880251_16159201_2512311_n.jpg)
The only good news, is that it's likely not going to happen over night. So there is time for people to invest in a little insurance by buying a little .38, and filling up an old closet with a few weeks worth of non-perishable food, water and gas, while they look at their IRA's and savings accounts and figure out how to protect what they have.
Quote from: dogboy on March 24, 2012, 01:41:32 PM
>what specifically to do
I hear you. Right now, I'm just looking at the big picture. I move cash to metals, and am trying to dump the Florida vacation home. Guns and ammo were never an issue with me, as we have enough to weapons to literally fully outfit a small army... over 50 guns for just about any conceivable situation.This is just for the autos...I have more for shotguns, hunting rifles, and pistols.
People laugh ...
I'm not laughing, I'm admiring!
Serious preps there.
You can never have too many guns or too much ammo.
hey, like I said, if things go South, I might too... the Cayman's sound like pretty nice alternative strategy:) All that money down there will ensure country club style conditions under the very worst world economic conditions.
But it wouldn't be bad to have a cabin, with thick walls, nestled in by 3 sides of NF, with a stream, a private pond, with a view of a big lake surrounded by mountains. That's what's next on my list. Honestly, I don't have any food stored or anything like that at all; I'm still getting the big picture framed out. Putting together something that will hopefully appreciate in value over time. Ideally, I'd like to have a place somewhere down here warm and sandy, and a mountain cabin.
And maybe it's time for another dog...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/416985_10150562575654756_144814609755_8675280_120882652_n.jpg)
>And maybe it's time for another dog...
*claps hands* Yeaaaaa! I'm so glad to hear you're finally out of your depressed funk! I was really worried about you when I saw you last.
>you're finally out of your depressed funk
oh, I sure it's around here somewhere...
But yeah, I have a trip to Bulgaria coming up, maybe a pilgrimage to the Ducati factory in Italy too, then who knows; maybe a black, cross eyed, occasionally muzzled, attack dog, like this crazy SOB, is just what the doctor ordered.