The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: Mackin USA on October 28, 2015, 03:10:14 PM

Title: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Mackin USA on October 28, 2015, 03:10:14 PM
The Government Just Gave Everyone Permission to Hack Smart TVs

"The nightmare here is that hackers who don't wear the white hat will figure out how to watch and listen to us through our TVs, but that was apparently not a legitimate concern for the Copyright Office. The petition was brought by the Software Freedom Conservancy for the office's triennial review, and included an argument that contrary to unfounded fears, hacking could actually make TVs safer for users."

http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/10/the-government-just-gave-everyone-permission-to-ha.html
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Rooftop on October 29, 2015, 09:42:04 AM
I'd imagine that "bad guys" aren't overly bothered about breaking copyright rules anyway.

Considering the lack of security that seems to be the norm on these devices, opening them up might actually improve security..
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 17, 2019, 11:58:01 PM
QuoteThis week, Samsung took a bit of heat for urging the company's TV customers to, for the first time, occasionally run an antivirus scan on their television sets. The Tweet was online online briefly before Samsung deleted it, apparently realizing it only advertised the fact that you shouldn't be getting viruses on your TV set in the first place


We're Apparently Scanning Our TVs For Viruses Now | Techdirt
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190617/08491442412/were-apparently-scanning-our-tvs-viruses-now.shtml
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 18, 2019, 12:17:43 AM
I was looking around Costco: All the TV's were Smart TV's.  No thanks.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 18, 2019, 01:25:52 AM
In the long run, I guess we're going to have to learn how to use our routers to micro-manage a device and neuter it.  Something like Pi-hole.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Mackin USA on June 18, 2019, 09:57:09 AM
"In the long run, I guess we're going to have to learn how to use our routers to micro-manage a device and neuter it.  Something like Pi-hole."

RC: can you explain that to an OLD man?
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 18, 2019, 12:23:26 PM
As I (very roughly) comprehend it, those who understand all that IP number and port management magic available in better routers are able to block or limit unwanted traffic to a specific device.  For instance, they wouldn't let a tv send info TO Samsung, only receive.  Pi-hole does that for ad servers, but for privacy and security we probably need more granular control of the data packets coming & going.  There are programs like Wireshark that let you sniff your network traffic --but I don't know how to use it.

Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 18, 2019, 01:15:15 PM
I'm wondering if the OS of the Smart TV might make a difference?  Some use Android, LG uses their version of webOS, others use some OS cooked up in-house.  I think the last Smart TV I would buy, if I ever bought one, would be one with Android.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Drastic on June 18, 2019, 01:24:02 PM
There's really no way around it if you want a recent high quality tv.

I threw in the towel last year.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Mackin USA on June 18, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
"There's really no way around it

F#CKERS
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 18, 2019, 10:11:58 PM
Unless the manufacturer put in an requirement for the tv to ping their servers in order to remain active, I'm pretty sure the smart router guys could lock it down or at least substantially minimize phoning home.  But all of that comes with support nuisances and I doubt many would take the trouble.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 18, 2019, 10:15:32 PM
<added>

Remember, you can always kill power when they're not in use.  They sure as hell won't phone home then.  (I do that with one Chinee smarthome device that is known to chat with their servers.)
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Travoli on June 18, 2019, 10:29:59 PM
The gaming companies might have a solution for y'all. Giant gaming monitors seem to lack the smart-TV stuff... or at least the concept models did.

https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming-monitors/rog-swift-pg65-big-format-gaming-display-bfgd-120hz-gsync-65-inch-4k-with-hdr/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14088/nvidia-65-inch-big-format-gaming-display-is-here-hp-omen-x-emperium



Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Mackin USA on June 19, 2019, 09:33:46 AM
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/best/budget-gaming

Cheap too
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KXHTRT5?tag=rtings-tv-cm11a-20&ie=UTF8

Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2019, 01:02:09 PM
>cheap

But that's a tiny 27-inch in the current 50-inch era.  35-inch models, the biggest I could find on Amazon, was $850.  Screens unsubsidized by the sale of your personal data are going to be expensive, I guess.

The price differential reminds me of this article:
The reason why smart TVs are so affordable: They track your data - Business Insider
https://www.businessinsider.com/smart-tv-data-collection-advertising-2019-1
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Drastic on June 19, 2019, 01:52:47 PM
Yeah I meant you can't get a good tv without the trojan horse. You can just not ever connect it.

My main display is still a projector, just for video. But we have other TVs in the house and I just caved due to ain't nobody got time...
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2019, 02:26:14 PM
>caved due to ain't nobody got time...

Exactly why I shy away from pursuing packet-sniffing and device management on the router.  IOT support & maintenance is not a hobby that I would enjoy.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 19, 2019, 02:31:42 PM
How to turn off snooping on smart Tv's

https://www.consumerreports.org/privacy/how-to-turn-off-smart-tv-snooping-features/
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2019, 02:41:46 PM
>turn off

Sorta, kinda.

QuoteNote that even if you shut off ACR, the TV manufacturer will still get information from your set as long as you accept the basic privacy policy—and you have to do that if you want to use the set for streaming.

And that doesn't address the problem of importing malware to the tv, which has become a significant concern.  IMO, you're going to have to shut down firmware updates and such in order to limit that.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Travoli on June 19, 2019, 03:47:01 PM
>27-inch

The gaming companies are developing 43", 55", and 65" screens. They will be expensive.

Asus 43" (can't buy yet)
https://www.pcgamesn.com/asus/asus-rog-strix-gaming-monitors-ces-2019

Alienware 55" OLED (can't buy yet)
https://www.pcgamer.com/alienwares-55-inch-4k-oled-gaming-monitor-is-definitely-getting-released/

HP 65" ($4,999)
https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/omen-x-emperium-65-inch-big-format-gaming-display
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Drastic on June 19, 2019, 03:49:41 PM
That's why I use a pj for gaming. 4k hdr10 at 135" is quite nice. Only 60 hz though if that matters.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 19, 2019, 07:13:31 PM
I'm using my old dumb TV's until they die.


"Smart TV" strikes me as being an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
>I'm using my old dumb TV's until they die.

Same here, I bought two 46" Sony Bravias back in 2009 --just before tvs went smart.  I don't watch them, but I'm not hearing any complaints.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 23, 2019, 01:56:03 PM
Somebody has to be making modest sized dumb TV's,  what about the motel and hospital industries I don't think they want Smart TV's?
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 23, 2019, 10:04:34 PM
>motel and hospital industries I don't think they want Smart TV's?

They now have a splash screen that asks if you want to use your own streaming accounts.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on September 09, 2021, 07:03:30 PM
^
Uh-oh.  Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.

Amazon to start production on its first Amazon-built TV
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/amazon-to-start-production-on-its-first-amazon-built-tv-090921.html

Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on January 14, 2022, 07:49:06 PM
RootMyTV
https://rootmy.tv/
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: ergophobe on January 15, 2022, 04:38:39 PM
>>Amazon

I have to say that my 92yo dad loves Alexa. He recently got Alexa set up to run his TV and to add appointments to his iPhone calendar. And with a simple, "Alexa, what do I have scheduled today," Alexa reads out what he has on his schedule for the day. Alexa interfaces with his Nest thermostat. So when he's cold, he just says, "Alexa, turn the heat to 72," and it's done. Alexa can check whether his garage door is open or closed.

I see an Alexa-enabled Smart TV in his future.

Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on April 15, 2022, 12:04:14 PM
It's Still Stupidly, Ridiculously Difficult To Buy A 'Dumb' TV | Techdirt
https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/14/its-still-stupidly-ridiculously-difficult-to-buy-a-dumb-tv/
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 14, 2022, 01:19:22 PM
The 7 Best Dumb TVs Without Smart Features
https://www.makeuseof.com/best-dumb-tvs/

My old, dumb Sony 46-inch died.  (My personal security risk --Louise-- wanted to replace it with a full-blown smart tv, complete with built-in Roku.  I nixxed that, Rupert.) Ordered the 55-inch Sceptre UTV 4K Ultra in the above review.  If it passes muster once installed, I may order another as a spare as these dumb tvs are getting scarce.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Rupert on June 15, 2022, 08:16:27 AM
Quotebuilt-in Roku.
I thought Roku would be a reasonable option.  Or are they now owned by one of the big boys?  Or sell data to them?
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 15, 2022, 06:47:22 PM
>thought Roku would be a reasonable option

Oh, she was an early-early-adopter of roku.  And I have yet to see any indication that they are selling data.  For -hopefully- long-term appliances, I think it is better to have separate, dedicated devices as they can individually be replaced when one or the other fails.  That said, I don't recall seeing any dumb tvs with roku. 
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2022, 01:15:02 AM
>If it passes muster once installed, I may order another as a spare as these dumb tvs are getting scarce.

Hot spare on order.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 19, 2022, 09:49:11 AM
> Hot spare on order.

Smart move I think.  These are becoming rare.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2022, 10:59:44 AM
Dual SONY's let me replace the downstairs TV in an evening. Louise didn't even have to reprogram the remote, the IR codes were the same.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 19, 2022, 02:26:15 PM
+

> becoming rare

Worse, the vendors are getting aggressive and forcing wifi connections.  /r is howling about *having* to connect their dishwasher, etc. to wifi or the appliance wouldn't complete the installation.  The vendor says it is to 'update firmware'  ....yeah, right. How much firmware does it take to wash a damn dish?!!! 
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on June 19, 2022, 03:13:16 PM
Frankly, a dish washer should not even need a circuit board (usually the first thing to fail).  Dishwasher used to me mechanical with dials and such.  You don't need a panel or wifi.  It's all BS.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: ergophobe on June 19, 2022, 10:15:56 PM
It's pretty bad. <y new clothes washer has failed to connect despite a dozen tries. Now, normally, I would not even want to connect, but features that are standard buttons on my 18yo dishwasher, like delayed start, now require you to do it by phone.

So it's not like you get all the function you got from a 2010 machine built in, then some add-ons with the phone. You get a subset of the 2010 functions and to get full 2010 functionality, you need to connect.

I'd be less perturbed out it if the connection function worked.

>> circuit boards

Three failures in 18 years. An understated appliance repair person said to me: "Putting a circuit board in a place that gets constant steam is not really a good design." Basically, if the circuit board goes out and they don't sell it anymore, you trash the machine. It's so bad that it makes me think maybe I should just buy a circuit board for my new dishwasher and warehouse it. Ridiculous.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on June 22, 2022, 01:41:07 AM
Speak  of the devil...

Your Roku TV Is Getting Ads With Buy Buttons: Take a Look
https://www.howtogeek.com/812770/your-roku-tv-is-getting-ads-with-buy-buttons-take-a-look/
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on August 22, 2022, 03:16:21 PM
>Hot spare

Debbie got this one right.

The downfall of smart TVs: From promises of seamless viewing to ad tool on steroids
https://adguard.com/en/blog/smart-tv-ad-blocking.html
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: Brad on April 11, 2023, 03:52:43 PM
This thread came in handy.  My mother's TV went out and once we figured out is was indeed the TV and not the cable I had to go shopping.  Fortunately, I remembered the warnings in this thread so I ignored the Smart TV's and hunted down a 32" dumb TV.  "Insignia" which is Best Buy's house brand at about $90 (cheap).  And it worked.

Mom is 92 and has never seen the Internet let alone have an internet connection so I suppose having an unconnected Smart TV might be okay (if it would even work) but I wanted to avoid any menu screens or "no internet" warning screens popping up which would send her into a complete panic.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on April 11, 2023, 03:56:53 PM
> wanted to avoid any menu screens

DVD menu screens were an insurmountable obstacle for my elderly, nearly blind mom.  She was fine with VCR ---just stick 'em in the slot and press Play.  But she could not read the DVD menu screens nor navigate to Start.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on May 04, 2023, 09:35:21 PM
Forget ad-supported streaming — here come the ad-supported TVs - The Verge

https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/4/23711450/pluto-tv-co-founder-free-ad-supported-ilya-pozin
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on December 25, 2023, 06:28:05 PM
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/12/upcoming-wireless-tvs-sell-users-on-screen-products-when-they-raise-their-hand/

Wireless TVs use built-in cameras, NFC readers to sell you stuff you see on TV | Ars Technica
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on August 19, 2024, 01:59:36 PM
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/08/tv-industrys-ads-tracking-obsession-is-turning-your-living-room-into-a-store/

Your TV set has become a digital billboard. And it's only getting worse. | Ars Technica
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on October 08, 2024, 11:31:46 AM
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/streaming-industry-has-unprecedented-surveillance-manipulation-capabilities/

Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes

48-page report urges FTC, FCC to investigate connected TV industry data harvesting.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: ergophobe on October 09, 2024, 12:45:46 AM
Thank you for my regular reminder that I don't need a new TV :-)

Just a friend's house enjoying the massive size and sumptuous colors of his new TV, which spends several seconds displaying the WebOS logo as the TV boots.

I don't need an incentive to watch more TV and I'm not sure a TV that takes as long to boot as my laptop is something I want.
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on October 09, 2024, 01:44:20 AM
>urges FTC, FCC to investigate connected TV industry ALL data harvesting

This whack-a-mole approach is never going to do more than scratch the surface of data harvesting and consumer privacy. 
Title: Re: Is it time to review Smart TVs ??
Post by: rcjordan on April 26, 2026, 12:13:34 AM
interesting if true...

YSK On any Android based TV you can change the "launcher", removing every advertisement and making your home screen completely free of bloatware : YouShouldKnow

https://old.reddit.com/r/YouShouldKnow/comments/1svbrih/ysk_on_any_android_based_tv_you_can_change_the/