Driving traffic via FB is not my expertise..to say the least.
But we want to start making a push there and we're willing to spend some dough on a consultant for help.
Who should we be talkin to?
Rob Valli (dogboy)
We failed miserably there as well.
>failed miserably
I think it takes a different way of thinking. My conventional attempt of PPC marketing fell like a stone.
I don't think Facebook is right for every business. Not a MUST IMO
Still, it would be nice to crack that nut.
QuoteStill, it would be nice to crack that nut.
Depends if the ROI is there IMO and relatively few have been able to make it work. What I am trying to think through is how much effort it should really get right now compared to other/better higher ROI activities. May be better letting others crack the code first and then move in once a viable strategy has been established. Ironically, you usually see these kinds of solutions come through the IM crowd first.
Social is a different mindset, and fb is unique.
There are people who do nothing but facebook, and I have a pretty good feeling they are banking hard. I know at least some of them are, I can feel the rumblings.
A site which overtakes Google traffic-wise is not something to be ignored, IMO.
I don't know exactly how they do it, but I've played with it a bit. It's just a different ballgame. My roots are too deep in SEO and traditional content with open fields that need to be harvested right now for me to focus on it, but I plan to.
If I did know, I sure wouldn't be posting it in a public forum or selling the "method" for others to saturate. I suspect that's why there's not much out there now.
>>>>>I don't think Facebook is right for every business. Not a MUST IMO
Totally disagree.
Way too much traffic there.
Remember that stat everyone quoted in the past to sell SEO "75% of people start at a search engine"? It's bullshit now....a great percentage of people start at FB.
QuoteA site which overtakes Google traffic-wise is not something to be ignored, IMO.
Intent plays a large part in those comparisons IMO. When Facebook becomes a destination for search (outside of people search) then the commercial viability will expand to include more business models.
QuoteWay too much traffic there.
But you're thinking of people in terms of numbers rather than people. Biggest mistake the old SEO mindset (myself included) is stuck in which I believe accounts for our repeated failures in trying to tap into FB.
Well, we've had this (or similar) argument before, and I really don't care to get that far into it, but I will say the approach you have is the way I looked at blogging back in what '03-'04? I won't be making a similar mistake if I can help it.
I'm sure those who know how to work it are loving us veterans who can't work out the "roi" on the "business models." Social is a big part of the way forward, I think. Adapt or suffer.
Quotebut I will say the approach you have is the way I looked at blogging back in what '03-'04?....
I'm sure those who know how to work it are loving us veterans who can't work out the "roi" on the "business models." Social is a big part of the way forward, I think. Adapt or suffer.
I am making a nice living and none of it is by blogging. I know many bloggers who aren't making crap and suffering. So maybe my approach is just fine.
I think of social, blogging etc. as possible tools, not as essentials. You pull out the right tool to get a certain job done. You don't need every tool on every job.
But to each his own, go your own way (I know you will anyway ;) )
>>>Intent plays a large part in those comparisons IMO. When Facebook becomes a destination for search (outside of people search) then the commercial viability will expand to include more business models.
Intent does matter....but FB doesn't need to become a destination for search in order for businesses to thrive on the platform.
The approach needs to be different.
Zynga crushes (partly) because there is a social component to their games and they've monetized them well so they can spend more on advertising.
Things are completely different on FB. It is about engaging the user, getting them to spread it around to their network, and monetizing them in a discreet way.
If our entire business was focused on it I'm sure we could figure it out. Unfortunately we are spread thin and it isn't a focus right now. \
>>>You don't need every tool on every job.
No, certainly not.
My point was simply that there is a fuckload of traffic on FB. And it isn't like these are new users w/ different intent than those previously on Google. Same people, new start page. Just need a different approach to engage them.
>I am making a nice living and none of it is by blogging. I know many bloggers who aren't making crap and suffering.
That part of my post wasn't directed at you. It was a mistake for the ways I work to ignore blogging. Blogs probably make up a third of my sites, maybe close to half? I am also making a living and a considerable amount comes from those blogs.
I didn't understand it, couldn't see the "business model" and roi, and read the same stuff about broker pro bloggers. NFFC was kind enough to give me a boost in the right direction on the subject, and that was a considerable part of me staying in the game over the years.
Maybe you'll be fine. I don't think I would be fine had I continued to ignore blogging. Making great money causes you to think you're invincible to some degree. News is, you ain't.
Social is not just a "tool" it *is* the Internet in ways like search is and has been. I'm just saying, you may be fine forever, and that's all good. But I wouldn't advise anyone to ignore social, as one could do that to their detriment.
QuoteZynga crushes (partly) because there is a social component to their games and they've monetized them well so they can spend more on advertising.
Zynga crushes because:
1) they were early in to the game with good timing
2) they could scale quickly due to...
3) ripping people off through bogus "free" offers that people got charged for generating revenue that...
4) got reinvested in ripping off existing game designs (CEO has been quoted as giving green light to copy games developed by other companies) and...
5) hiring struggling game developers that were hit hard by the one-two shot of the economy, a saturated market, and massive price wars
Game developers that are trying to break into social right now are meeting a brick wall big time. Zynga is an exception, not the rule.
We all profit from search because we are fulfilling keyword driven user intent. Current FB models are failing because you are trying to "push" something at a community that they aren't there for. Biz models that have worked well on FB have tapped into the intent of that audience - dating for example. A perfect biz match for social. Market is there to meet people and develop relationships. Groupon is another (right now) as it leverages social psychology in sharing deals with your friends and fits the female heavy/shopping-deal minded FB demographic.
Very true, but not every dating app has soared and been profitable.
The ones that are successful have figured out the platform, the social aspect, the monetization, and the metrics.
I know you hate Zynga.... but:
>>they were early in to the game with good timing
Nothing wrong with that
>>ripping people off through bogus "free" offers that people got charged for generating revenue that...
Buyer-fucking-beware - If you don't read the fine print, tough shit. You want a free hoe for your garden? You gotta do something for it.
>>got reinvested in ripping off existing game designs (CEO has been quoted as giving green light to copy games developed by other companies) and...
Happens in every business. People copy each other all the time.
>>hiring struggling game developers that were hit hard by the one-two shot of the economy, a saturated market, and massive price wars
Smart move
>>>Current FB models are failing because you are trying to "push" something at a community that they aren't there for.
Yep....same thing we are dealing with on our site. People are coming in for all sorts of shit and we trying to determine what will convert the user. It's been, and continues to be, a struggle.
QuoteBuyer-fucking-beware - If you don't read the fine print, tough shit.
I thought you were one of those blue state guys ;) (oops, that was a political comment....where's a moderator??)
QuoteI know you hate Zynga
hate, loathe, spit on ;)
>>>>I thought you were one of those blue state guys
:)
Businesses need to make money...if our business makes money by giving a user digital farm equipment in exchange for them completing a lead for Netflix, I am 100% fine with that. And if that person is careless enough to put their phone number in w/out thinking about what they're doing....well, I can't help 'em :)
We're talking about harnessing online traffic, but if you have a physical business FB has announced a Groupon-Foursquare killer.
"Like Foursquare, Facebook's new deals product lets businesses draw in customers by offering a deal or discount to those who "check in," and those deals can be created by any business, small or large, through a self-service tool.
It gets more sophisticated: Activate the deal, and it'll be shared on your Facebook wall. There are also multiple kinds of deals, such as charity deals, with which a business donates a given amount for every check-in; group deals, which a Facebook user can only activate by bringing friends (and checking them in through Facebook Places as well); and loyalty deals that reward members for multiple check-ins."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13577_3-20021697-36.html
<added>
http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=446183422130
QuoteFB has announced a Groupon-Foursquare killer
Exactly what Google is doing. Clone the stuff that is working based on all your data collection. Since you own the "closed system", you can boot whatever business you want out whenever you want.
>Exactly what Google is doing
How so? You mean this thread?
http://th3core.com/talk/traffic/'sponsored-listings'-to-now-a-more-discrete-'ads'-on-g/
>>Exactly what Google is doing
>>How so? You mean this thread?
or
people are building businesses based on long tail local queries from your SERPs
instead of giving them the traffic, you build a better product and inject it into the listings...killing businesses
Google is/has moved into:
- affiliate
- travel
- local
- news
- finance
- mortgage (you'll love this - https://www.google.com/comparisonads/mortgages?s=1&kw=mortgage&cat=2&c=wa_fam&q=mortgage#ti=0)
- video
- books
- mobile
- everything via adwords
Look at this list and type of companies they have bought in various verticals, they've been on a tear in 2010 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_acquisitions_by_Google
>building businesses based on long tail local queries
Been there since 1996, AG, and all I'll say is it's a damn good thing I own the type-ins. Looking at the geo serps, and as a long-time manipulator of the UI to get the user to focus, there's little doubt left that they're walling the garden. Well, not exactly walled, leaving holes where very few use them.
There were several markets we were interested in moving into and started the testing phase, but ever since this local thing G has been pushing lately, I have backed away from anything that smacks of local.
>backed away from anything that smacks of local
The only salvation is if a site can attract direct advertisers. Advertisers are showing signs of desperation as they feel the squeeze. I had one local chamber contact me last week about buying the type-in for their town "in order to regain control of their ad budget" (their words, not mine).
just to hijack the thread back to facebook - I've been speaking to a lot of people about what they're managing to get conversions on from facebook ads and I've only heard two *real* success stories (by which I mean better ROI than any other online method). One was promoting a college specific product to college kids - based on real microtargeting but apparantly a dollar a conversion. Yup $1. So clearly it can work bloody well.
The other was similarily very well targeted - animal charity - ads being served tailored as far as possible to specific animals for groups/pages etc.
Every other success story has sounded like a high ROI to me, even if it did get conversions. Would be good to see some data on brand awareness, or even ad awareness, from some large campaigns.
"Home improvement retailer Lowe's went on Facebook and invited all of its friends to a totally awesome pre-Black Friday party late Thursday night and early Friday morning. Like all really fun parties, too many people showed up and things got out of hand. Which is to say that the doorbuster item, a KitchenAid stand mixer at 90%, sold out quickly, and took the store's entire site down with it."
http://consumerist.com/2010/11/lowes-holds-sale-underestimates-demand-for-90-off-kitchenaid-stand-mixers.html