The Core

So it is that time again for a new laptop and I would appreciate your thoughts on what brand you would go for. I used to be Toshiba but my current laptop is now playing up after just over 2 years and although a lovely piece of kit the construction is terrible the faulty hinge is making the screen detach from the base and has been doing for over a year. Looking it up it seems it is a common problem that is with many builds and they haven't addressed it so time to make a change. I gave up on dell 3 laptops ago as I was getting the blue screen of death after 2-3 years. However, I am warily considering trying them again as they are coming out well in reviews.

So I have narrowed it down to the brands above specs are pretty much the same, price there is only £50-100 between them so not a big deal when you are spending £1000. What are your thoughts experiences, I know you guys probably run them as hard as I do (although I do a lot of graphics and video work nowadays), which would you go for?

I've just come out of the other side of the same process.   I surprised myself by going with Dell.  Dell also surprised me by supplying a great machine.

I buy 2-3 laptops a year.  I've avoided Dell for a numbers of years. I've been moving between the 3 brands you mentioned since. Mostly Lenovo.  I've gone off lenovo a lot though.  They've fallen into the trap of "pretty over good" and the quality seems to have suffered.  They also make some bat-shit crazy decisions at times. I have a Yoga 2 pro that has a screen resolution so high that it is practically unusable and is fitted with bluetooth and wifi from the ark.

I am slow to make decisions on stuff like this, so read a lot of reviews (I like reading reviews).  The Dell XPS 13 was the top laptop  for 2016 in almost every review I read (win or mac). I associate Dell with cheap and nasty so I took some persuading. Eventually though I got worn down as the best that could be said about any other laptop was "if you aren't going to buy the Dell..."

I haven't been using it a week yet, but so far I am impressed.  I prefer the keyboard of the yoga, but this one will be fine once I get used to it.  McAfee put up a fight trying to stop itself being removed, but otherwise I cannot say a single bad thing about this system.   It really is very good. Nicely made, fast as you like (7th gen I7, although some options with more RAM would have been nice - I haven't done any video on this yet) . The screen is a thing of beauty.

One of my guys hit me up for the new asus a couple of weeks ago. That is a nice system too, but I think he wishes he held out for the Dell.

Been on Dell for as long as I can remember. GREAT service and good machines.

Dell for me too. An XPS 15 has been my primary laptop for a couple of years now. Only major issue I've had is the battery is starting to lose charge but that's expected at the age. Screen is lovely and it still runs quickly after a few year's worth of use.

Must say I was very impressed with a Lenovo Chromebook I bought for a family member a few weeks ago though. If you're looking for a knock around machine just for browsing the web quickly you couldn't go wrong with one. Cost me just over £100.

Quote from: keano on November 08, 2016, 10:23:32 AM
Must say I was very impressed with a Lenovo Chromebook I bought for a family member a few weeks ago though. If you're looking for a knock around machine just for browsing the web quickly you couldn't go wrong with one. Cost me just over £100.

Chromebooks are incredible value.  Bought one for my better half and have a couple in the office as stand by. For £200 you can have a machine that is faster than many windos/mac boxes 4x the price.  Just too limited though

>>>>> HP <<<<<  ;D

Hinges froze on 2 Lenovo laptops. If you can't close the lid, it becomes a desktop.

Love my Dell XPS 15 with the 4K screen. The only issue I've had was crashy graphics drivers, but MS seem to have fixed that now. I'd been running a small ThinkPad for years, and while it was very portable, the screen real estate was poor. I'm a TrackPoint/pointing stick convert, so I was holding out for a new high-end ThinkPad. The Dell specs blitzed the X1 Carbon though, so I'm having to get used to touchpads again. The Dell XPSs are just as nice as Apple laptops IMHO.

I've been on the look out for a new laptop and kept on being drawn back to the XPS 13 (Currently got a XPS studio which is nearing it's demise). It looks such a nice machine, and can see me using one.

But wanted to wait to see what Apple did with the MacBook, but alas, my expectations were squashed. That fancy touch bar did nothing to excite me.

I also liked the idea of a 2 in 1. Something that I could have total flexibility with my varied lifestyle, and to make proper use of the touch screen (still can't see the point of a touch screen on a standard laptop).
So I was looking at:
Thinkpad X1 Yoga - but no USB C port. Not spending that sort of money without the future port being on it.
MS Surfacebook i7 - again no USB C port
Lenovo 900 -> soon to be replaced with the 910 which has a USB C port! yay

But then I read this - http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/xps-13-2-in-1
A little excited I have to say :)
Now if they can do it so I can connect 2x external 4k monitors then they have me, hook, line and sinker. Cheque book at the ready!

Quote from: Chunkford on November 08, 2016, 02:00:57 PM
I also liked the idea of a 2 in 1. Something that I could have total flexibility with my varied lifestyle, and to make proper use of the touch screen (still can't see the point of a touch screen on a standard laptop).

In 18 months of 2in1 ownership I've probably used it as something other than a laptop 6 or 7 times.  I totally agree that touchscreen on a non-convertible laptop is weird and unnecessary, but I didn't find the convertible any more of an improvement.

Urgh, not another one saying 2in1 will be pointless.
Maybe there's a hidden message there, lol.

Ok, so if it is pointless, I suppose the big question is do I get an XPS 13 now (currently £100 off) or chance it and see what Black Friday brings?

Decision, decisions.

Quotetouchscreen on a non-convertible laptop is weird and unnecessary

Yep. Switched it off on the XPS 15 the day I got it, and it's never been back on.

Quotedo I get an XPS 13 now (currently £100 off)

Yes, plus a dock to drive two giant 4K monitors. ;)

I've got to say that I've been tempted to augment the Dell with a Lenovo Yoga Book:

http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/tablets/lenovo/yoga/yoga-book-android/

That looks truly innovative, and nicely built.

I'm a lenovo guy, they just seem to get the ergonomics right.

I've bought a couple cheaper Acers this year that had good hardware and specs, but very let down by the ergos. I've heard good things about the Dell XPS models, but pricey when I looked though that's been a while.

2015 reliability
https://www.squaretrade.com/laptop-reliability-1109/

2013 reliability by brand
https://www.squaretrade.com/laptop-reliability-1109/

I've had great experience with Asus machines. Haven't tried their customer service, so cannot comment on that.
On the opposite end, my last Dell was defective. Service was so infuriating I swore I'd never buy another.

Quote from: jetboy on November 08, 2016, 05:22:56 PM
Yes, plus a dock to drive two giant 4K monitors. ;)

Can that be done properly. Been reading it will only do it @ 30ghz not 60

Have a Dell Latitude E7470 here at the office. Stays docked most of the time but is nice and light to carry around. I don't find it the most comfortable to use while sitting on the couch or at odd angles. The front edge seems a bit sharp and it kind of digs into the heels of my hand. But when it is on the desk or a table or something it is great.

Wow thanks guys, so it looks like I will tentatively try Dell again then. The reliability report in 2015 is probably right if judging it from 3 year previous Toshiba's used to be the best in my opinion but the last one I bought 2 years ago, like I say the hinges are killing it and am having some weird behaviour that normally comes a few months before the laptop fails. When I bought this I asked the guy which laptops are brought back the least and he said the Lenovo, which is what made me consider it but they didn't have anything with my requirements at the time. However, I have heard that they have put spyware on their systems since then so I though they may be going down hill. As for the hinge fail maybe they are using the same casing guys as Toshiba.

The ones in my current budget are the Inspiron range, the XPS is double my budget but it does have 32 rather than 16 Gig of ram which makes me drool like Homer over a beer, although I think this will only make a real difference in gaming and when using after effects which is only occasionally for me. So I don't know whether this is worth over double what I would be paying for the inspiron which also has 4GiG on the graphics card rather than 2. I got burn't last round as I bought an all singing all dancing custom build from PC specialist that was a piece of crap and their customer service reps were even worse. So I was a bit nervous on this round especially being over in SA. Your input has been really helpful.

http://www.jarir.com/sa-en/computers-peripherals/laptops/dell-inspiron-15-7566-laptops-467925.html

Yes decision made I think I will go for the Inspiron, not sure if the XPS is worth the budget this time. Thanks guys. It would be interesting to drag up this thread in the future when they all start failing so we can compare on the next round.

QuoteCan that be done properly. Been reading it will only do it @ 30ghz not 60

Honestly? Never tried it. The Dell dock that was supposed to come out shortly after the latest XPS range got pulled, so it looks like folk are trying all sorts of different methods to try and get two 4K monitors at 60Hz, with varying success. All I can say is that it was part of the Dell sales pitch at the time.

Lenovo - Beware! Lenovo Caught (3rd Time) Pre-Installing Spyware on its Laptops https://thehackernews.com/2015/09/lenovo-laptop-virus.html

I am not much of a laptop user. The last one I had was a Dell Inspiron 8200 which lasted forever.

If I ever get another I've got my eyes on one from Purism (https://puri.sm/products/). They cost more, but I appreciate the work they do to decouple the hardware from software that can surreptitiously spy on you.

Sort of related: It's 2016. Isn't it time we had a serious alternative to Windows?   I don't ask much from an operating system:

• Launch a browser
• look after my files
• run excel quickly
• run a few weird java tools
• don't be a dick about updates

All the features they keep adding, wouldn't cracking those be fairly simple?   
Oddly ChromeOS is about the closest.  If the offline "docs" experience was better I could be tempted away.  Maybe time to try something nix based again and see if the spreadsheet solutions have got any better

James is a big nix fan and also a excel wiz and has mentioned in the past that unfortunately it is the main downfall, nothing quite matches up to microsoft excel for more complex needs.

Hard drive has just failed on my brand new XPS.  Less than 12 hours use.  Pissed off after putting that amount of time setting up and transferring stuff. 

> hard drive

Ouch. 

I'm not convinced it is the drive.  I think something wacky is going on with Windows.  Dell support are being very good.  They've been remoted in for about 90 minutes already.  Not sure we are getting anywhere though

If it's a Samsung PM951 NVMe SSD then the driver choice is critical. Mine blue screened initially with the Samsung driver (installed as part of a clean install). The Windows update driver has been fine.

Jury is still out on the hardware,  but I can't knock the effort of support.
Spent nearly six hours between phone and remote support today.  Hopefully sorted now,  but lots of setup to do over again.

Last time I bought a laptop, I got an HP and the drive failed twice in 90days, which is the return period at Costco. I gave it back and got an Asus that has been my very good friend for a few years now.

Point being... if it fails in two weeks, that's a bad since for the future.

Ouch that is terrible! Did you manage to get it fixed? Was it the hardware? A friend bought an all singing all dancing gaming Dell a few years ago, spent £3K on it. Everything failed within the first year (he is a big gamer), he got the extended warranty so ended up with pretty much a brand new computer after a year but it was worrying that they had supped it up so much that the system couldn't handle its own specs.

HP are terrible, I had one that the inside build was so badly constructed that it overheated and killed the motherboard. Another one did exactly the same for a friend a couple of months after. This was a few years ago but after having a printer that I don't use too often fail within 8 months needing new print heads (which printers are what they are known for, they are the industry leaders regarding innovation of  commercial printers I believe) I didn't trust them to improve on their laptops so they weren't even a consideration.

I ended up buying the Dell Inspiron gaming laptop linked above. It has the capacity to increase the RAM to 32GB. A couple of days in and so far so good. However, the high resolution screen is causing me issues. My eyesight can't cope with the small text so I have spent half of the time configuring text, zooms on programs, brightness etc. Still feeling sick after a few hours use, hoping it is a bug and not the laptop but the jury is out on that. If it continues to make me sick then I may have to buy another with a less painful resolution for day to day (if they exist).

I was worried about moving to windows 10, a few niggling issues with that but after a move from 8.1 it isn't quite as painful as I had anticipated. James is as scathing as always though being a Linux boy. He is tempted to still try the Asus on his next one so that is encouraging ergophobe.

Win 10 is fine

Dell update: XPS is behaving really well now and I'm starting to feel the love again. Can't fault their support. They've even followed up to ensure that I have managed to get set up again and that I haven't encountered more issues

Which brand/model comes without Norton or MacAfee installed?   There always seems to be problems uninstalling these virus-like programs that lead to stability issues.

Next laptop I buy (which will probably be for new year if I include team purchases) I'll just go straight in with the restore windows option. That is now a standard win 10 feature and I think it is now step 1.  Forget picking and choosing what to keep - just reset. The only hiccup is making sure you have wifi drivers.

Mac all the way and twice on Sunday. The damn things just work for years and years.

>> just work

Yep.

just WORK or JUST work?

Quote from: Brad on November 18, 2016, 12:04:42 PM
Which brand/model comes without Norton or MacAfee installed?   There always seems to be problems uninstalling these virus-like programs that lead to stability issues.

That was one of the first things I did, had no issues uninstalling with Crap Cleaner. Glad you are up and running again Rooftop!

The last one I got, and looking round I thought I was a Dell man, but we have three PCSpecialist.co.uk machines here now.

The Last has an SSD for the opp system, and then a standard HD for the docs. 


Never had a problem with 2 I bought in mid 2010 Still going strong, upgraded to Win 10 with no issues.

And you can upgrade them,  give them a call, tell they your order number and model, and they can advise what to upgrade. 

sorry Rooftop, I think I should have realised that earlier?  :-[

PC Specialists - Oh I called alright, the day after it was delivered, they had terrible customer service and even broke the law by refusing to accept a return for refund. The components are dog s&*%, the laptop is dead with hardly any use, not even worth trying to revive it. The only place that piece of crap is going, is the bin.

wow and ouch...  when was that Leona?

Ah, just realised you started the thread.. went back to the beginning and found this:

QuoteI got burn't last round as I bought an all singing all dancing custom build from PC specialist that was a piece of crap and their customer service reps were even worse. So I was a bit nervous on this round especially being over in SA. Your input has been really helpful.

Interestingly different perspective to me! did you not pay by CC?

I ordered it just under 3 years ago. No, very stupidly, I paid via debit card, I won't be making that mistake again. They had great reviews so I didn't think twice, now I know why they have such good reviews, they work every angle to take bad reviews off and you only have 12 months to review. So any computers that fail after this point never get heard about.

Mine was a laptop so maybe they build better PCs as you can't hide crappy components as easily and they are less likely to over tighten screws etc. However, the computer in total must have had no more than 90 days use over 2 years as I had to buy another computer whilst they held onto the faulty laptop for repairs and messed around sending stuff that didn't fix the issues. So this was delegated to a spare and used by my son for homework and some gaming (as it couldn't handle all games despite it being a gaming build). My son is not an average kid, he is very particular and treats stuff better than me, so it wasn't him either.

We had less than great results with them too.  Not as bad as Leona, but "meh" at best. Reliability / quality issues.