The Core

Why We Are Here => Water Cooler => Topic started by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 02:00:57 PM

Title: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 02:00:57 PM
Keto is my favorite -by far- and matches my food preferences and lifestyle but I'm at the point that I need to start thinking about transitioning out.  Mediterranean, DASH, and their hybrid (MIND) are the new hotness now.  MIND looks interesting. What say ye, O Great Hive-mind?

MIND: https://bebrainfit.com/mind-diet-recipes/

Mediterranean diet only works if you earn £35,000 a year and can afford quality food, study suggests
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/08/01/mediterranean-diet-works-earn-35000-year-can-afford-quality/

The problems I see going off keto is that [1] anything else looks to be a massive PITA and time-consuming to prepare & [2] I still eat HUGE portions.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: ukgimp on August 02, 2017, 02:43:23 PM
Slow carb. Can still eat big

https://tim.blog/category/the-slow-carb-diet/
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 03:21:31 PM
Never heard of it. Will explore. I've been thinking that I'm really going to end up expanding the keto diet by adding some vegetables and shifting away from red meat (THAT's the hard one).

Thanks
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Travoli on August 02, 2017, 03:24:35 PM
+1 slow carbs. K.I.S.S.

http://www.glycemicindex.com/foodSearch.php
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 03:29:27 PM
>K.I.S.S.

As a true-believer in the earlier, sous-vide, version of RC's Replicator, you may be the only one here who 'gets it' when it comes to this aspect. I just can't go back to the slave-to-food-prep world, it's guaranteed to fail.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Travoli on August 02, 2017, 03:37:45 PM
>K.I.S.S.

Minimize the area under the curve.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 03:48:38 PM
Curve? What curve? Semi-seriously, I've been flat-lining for years.

Looking at the slow-carb, that's what I've already been doing. Note that 2 of the rules are [1] No white stuff & [2] No fruit, which I've mentioned before.  So, I'll be expanding that --probably with an eye to the MIND diet and continuing to keep the curve as flat as possible.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 02, 2017, 03:50:45 PM
<added>
5 rules here:
https://www.findingmyfitness.com/2014/01/the-ultimate-quickstart-guide-for-the-slow-carb-diet/

/r/ here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/4hourbodyslowcarb/
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Drastic on August 03, 2017, 01:19:23 AM
>adding some vegetables and shifting away from red meat (THAT's the hard one).

I was informed this week that I need to do this hard and heavy...like 1 meal per day that I get red meat/whatever I want.

If I don't make it, it was nice knowing y'all.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: littleman on August 03, 2017, 01:50:34 AM
After the big loss eating right above keto works well for me.  In practicality I eat less fat and more fruit and veggies.  Its simply meat + lots of non-starchy veggies and a little fruit and occasional nuts.

You could go too much with  fruit --particularly tropical ones which tend to have more sugar.  Nuts are easy to overdo too, so some is good, but too much can be bad if you are trying to maintain.

I started with slow carb (lots of beans and lentils, then went hard keto.  Both worked well for dropping weight.  How I am eating now seems to give me a good balance for controlling my fat while attempting to gain muscle.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 03, 2017, 02:01:22 AM
>fruit

Strawberries and, to a lesser degree, blueberries can be added with the least negative impact on my diet. I love 'em, though, and they kick off a craving for more. No grapes.

Spinach, brussel spouts, green beans, & broccoli are easy to add. In normal serving sizes, they don't add anything measurable to my weight.

>nuts

Almonds, in moderation, are about all I can do. Walnuts, *maybe*, but I love them, too, so I over-do.

>lentils

Black bean seem to do ok. I'll try up-ing them.

Cucumbers, celery, dill pickles, olives, & cauliflower --I can eat these in almost unlimited quantities with no harm.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Mackin USA on August 03, 2017, 12:45:42 PM
Ruth Ann says

Keto works for maintenance, just need to adjust your macros:

http://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/

Work on getting buff and exercise in a fasted state.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: ukgimp on August 03, 2017, 02:05:12 PM
>> Work on getting buff and exercise in a fasted state.

No calendars please.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 03, 2017, 02:19:26 PM
I need to go through those 4hourbody diet sites and highlight some of the things he's mentioned. Several of them are oddball-ish things that I've also observed and sorta-kinda followed in my own diet plan.

EX: "Pick a breakfast and stick with it."

Gimp, tell your gal that fasting does work for Louise. We weren't really aware of it until your visit.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Rumbas on August 04, 2017, 11:31:41 AM
I'm toying around with fasting as well and pretty determined to do a 72 hour fast soon. Just need to remove any disctractions first as I have no spine. Eg. need to do over a weekend with no visits, company or things to do.

For IM, take a look at this guy:
https://www.instagram.com/blake_201/
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 04, 2017, 02:23:02 PM
>determined to do a 72 hour fast soon

Ping Louise on FB, Ras, she's had success with her version of the "fast-mimicking diet"  --it's pretty specific on ingredients but quite a bit more tolerable.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 04, 2017, 06:26:56 PM
Check your FB, Ras. Louise posted there. Let me know if you didn't get it.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: littleman on August 04, 2017, 06:45:54 PM
I do a shallow IF daily where I just start my day with coffee and typically start eating at about 2pm.  That's usually where I start to feel hungry.  A good way to start doing it is just to push your first meal of the day back a bit every day; after a while it feels normal.

I've been wanting to do a larger fast, not a goal to burn fat, but because of autophagy.  There is evidence that autophagy can be really beneficial but it is something that most modern people never allow their bodies to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autophagy

Autophagy is basically a process where cells feed on the damaged bits inside them as fuel, it is a way for cells to clean themselves out.  The process increases the longer fasts goes.  Most of the data I've seen suggests that it only starts kicking in a little at 16 hours.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 04, 2017, 07:41:50 PM
Gimp & Company brought the then UK faddish 5-day fast to Louise's attention.  Also, Louise's sister does the daily morning fast like LM, and has done it for some years now with ok-ish results.  During this period it was repeatedly ascertained that Louise just didn't have a metabolism no matter what the diet. (I'm serious, I don't know how she manages to fog a mirror. BTW, she's had her thyroid removed for 30+ years.)

What caught my eye on the reader was that there was good research showing that fasting helped reset metabolism.  We've progressed from there, trying to find the least-objectionable fast.  Again on the reader, I saw the fast-mimicking diet get some high marks --but it was proprietary and the guy was charging big bucks for the program. Louise started searching and found a guy who'd worked out the same or similar program.  She's done it a few times, it does seem to kick her metabolism back in gear for a week or two.   I'll see if I can get the recipe and post it here.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 04, 2017, 08:54:39 PM
Read it and weep, Rumbas. This is all you get for each day (but it's better than nothing).
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: littleman on August 05, 2017, 06:07:01 AM
I just wanted to add:  Maintenance is hard; statistically 97 percent gain back their weight within two years.

I believe there are two main problems that cause this:

So, post weight loss eating needs to account for both these things, you can't go through the day feeling like you are being deprived or hungry and you can't ever think that you are done with paying attention to what you eat. Eating habits need to be sustainable.  What that looks like is going to vary from person to person.  As you adjust your diet pay attention to how you are doing with the changes.  It is also important to make sure you are not overshooting and going beyond maintenance -- check the scale and how your cloths are fitting you regularly.


I know you know this RC, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway for others reading this thread.

Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 05, 2017, 12:14:19 PM
>you know this RC

It's like they say about trying to quit smoking; you're going to fail a couple of times in the process. Since 2003-ish, I've been at goal 3 times. After the first time, I gained it *all* back --probably took a year, maybe less. After the second time I met goal, IIRC it took a couple of years to gain *most* of it back.  Maybe I'll keep it off this time.  Or, maybe not ...but I do know that I can lean heavily on keto again and take it off. It helps that I like meat and don't dread the diet, but yo-yo weight cycles aren't the long-term answer and surely can't be good for you.

About all you can do is to be observant and try to note where you have weaknesses, then work out ways to avoid them without feeling deprived.  You chip away at making lifestyle changes; working out super-easy meal prep using the Replicator was likely the biggest positive contributor for me.

One almost universal hint that you're slipping is that you quit weighing daily or every few days.  I've mentioned earlier that's why I like the FatSecret app, it sends you a nag email if you drop out for a couple of weeks. 
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 05, 2017, 12:30:54 PM
<added>

OK, back to the main topic 'Diet after goal'

I'm going to keep keto as the core diet and add spinach, brussel sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, & green beans. None of these seem to negatively impact me when I have the occasional serving.  I've added low-carb tortilla wraps as a bread --again because I've previously observed that tortilla wraps don't hit me very hard when I pick up a sandwich while traveling.  I'm going to experiment with black beans. The internet goes crazy over black beans and I like them a little bit. Finally, I'm going to try and shift more to chicken vs red meat --at least 2 meals per week. I'll play with adding fish, but that's a long shot. I'm OK with fish but Louise doesn't want it in the house, hhh. Neither of us like turkey.

<added 2>
Believe it or not, Rumbas, you can get bored of rib-eyes.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Rumbas on August 05, 2017, 01:34:38 PM
Got it RC, thanks.

I had a huge pizza ealier this week and for some reason it knocked me out and I felt like shit for the whole night. Dunno if it's the gluten, but I usually feel better not getting too much.
The keto diet is absolutely something I could live on and as long as there is plenty of meat and greens, I'll do ok.

Yesterday after lunch I thought fuck it and decided to try and fast over the weekend just to see how my body reatcs and how I'm feeling. 30 hours with nothing but water and a coffee so far.
Feeling extremely sluggish with a huge head ache, but pushing through until Sunday at dinner time - maybe even Monday at lunch. Depends on how the rest of Sat and Sunday afternoon will pan out.

>Autophagy
Yup, the main reason I'm trying it out. Got so many allergies, bad digestion, migraines and stuff and read that it might be able to reset your immunesystem and fight off some of the consequenses of a rather bad life style atm.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 05, 2017, 01:54:06 PM
>pizza knocked me out

Search on 'carb flu' --most people seem to get it when they start keto but both Louise & I get it when we suddenly pig out on carbs.  I suspect it's really a precursor of blood sugar problems, but that's just a suspicion.

>might be able to reset your immunesystem

I read that as well. More than once. Too soon to tell, IMO, might be a World PeaceMiss Congeniality (film) kind of wish.

>bad digestion

I've mentioned before (maybe even is this thread) that my lifelong IBS goes away on keto diet --which is crazy since keto is almost the polar opposite from the IBS diet doctors gave me.  JUST this week, I picked up this in my reader:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/08/170803141045.htm
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Mackin USA on August 05, 2017, 02:20:01 PM
Ruth Ann has a reference site www.KetoMagic.com
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Rumbas on August 05, 2017, 03:31:07 PM
Good stuff. Will dig into it.

>carb flu

Yup, thinking about it I realize that I actually feel like shit almost every time I get a lot of carbs - carbs from bread/flour I think. Same thing in the morning if we do a traditional breakfast including a lot of white bread and toast etc. I get knocked out most of the day.

>IBS
Interesting. I've had symptoms for years and errm been anxious if I go too far away from a mens room.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: buckworks on August 05, 2017, 03:50:40 PM
My opinion, based on experience: get your carbs from something other than wheat. There are compounds (gliadins) in modern wheat varieties that stimulate the appetite beyond what your body actually needs. The more you can avoid those, the better.

Learning that it would be wise to avoid wheat was the turning point in my own weight loss journey. I can't say I've cut wheat 100% ... travel and social life sometimes get in the way. But when I go without it, my appetite stops working against me.

I don't avoid carbs otherwise, for me it's wheat that's the villain.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Travoli on August 05, 2017, 11:49:31 PM
>reliance on willpower to achieve weight loss

Some choose gastric bypass surgery over self discipline.

>pizza

For those in the USA:
https://realgoodfoods.com/

Not sure if there is an alternative like this in EU, Rasmus? Crust is made of parmesan and chicken. They do the job.
Here's a recipe for home made: http://sassysouthernyankee.com/2014/02/chicken-pizza-crust/

Don't forget pulled pork, RC. As long as the sauce is vinegar based.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 06, 2017, 01:06:20 AM
>pulled pork, RC. As long as the sauce is vinegar based

Yeah, but pork isn't really "the other white meat" per their 90s ad campaign, it's still red meat.  Louise's dad used to do vinegar-based bbq chicken. I just cooked it this weekend.  It's not pulled pork but it's good.

>choose gastric bypass surgery

I have a few in my extended family and friends. None -repeat, NONE- have really lost any large amounts of weight. Each has lost 50-80 pounds post surgery, then slowly started to creep back up. I'd guess that they do end up with a 30-40# loss.  Other than right after surgery, they don't change their lifestyle.  What we all want is a pill that fixes everything without any inconveniences.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: littleman on August 06, 2017, 06:16:32 AM
>gastric bypass

I know there are variations to the surgery, but I know people who have had it done and still gained back the weight.  It seems to take longer, two years to stretch out what's left of their digestive system and then it's back to the normal bounce back.  This time with an even more damaged metabolism.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Mackin USA on August 06, 2017, 09:49:01 AM
Ruth Ann says look at
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/blog/
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/06/17/psmf/

This is a calculator for the Protein Sparing Modified Fast
http://burnfatnotsugar.com/macrocalc/
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Travoli on August 06, 2017, 05:10:58 PM
>fasting

I forgot to add that Tim Ferriss and others said they felt terrible while fasting until they added some salt intake. Bullion cube in hot water to make broth, or an electrolyte tab in some water, etc...
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 06, 2017, 08:17:50 PM
Rumbas is awfully quiet. I've been scanning the DK press --no mass murders in Copenhagen (yet).
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Rumbas on August 07, 2017, 01:14:05 PM
>Rumbas is awfully quiet

Goddamn.

Took it for around 50 hours and it was tough! The first 24 hours was pure hell; headache, stommach growling like crazy and a heart rate a lot higher than normal.
Then it kind of settled and became a lot easier - even though I had some moments where I thought screw this and REALLY craved some carbs (fries, chips you name it) but I kept pushing and only did water.
I stayed away from coffee almost entirely (1 cup) as I know my system is not dealing great with coffee on a empty stommach.

Around the 40 hour mark "disaster pants" set in and I.. well shit my pants. Doing some research, diarrhea seems pretty normal as the body supposedly gets rid of some "toxis". I have a hard time buying into the toxins stuff though, but makes sense that the digestive system only has water to work with.

It seemed like my focus was a bit sharper, but not sure about that. I was kind of pissed the whole time and not really fun to be around.

The headache is probably due to several things; no coffee (I drink 8-10 cups a day), not enough water and as Trav mentioned above, no salt. However I read an article from a doc where he basically said that ANYTHING but coffee and water will break your fast. If it has 1 calorie in it you start over.

My hunger is down a LOT today ( I did a light dinner with a lof greens and some chicken) and a bun/roll with cheese and turkey before going to bed. I'm planning on playing around with Intermitten Fasting and haven't eaten today yet. REALLY looking forward to dinner tonight!

Today I feel pretty good, a slight headache, but drinking a lot of water and coffee is helping too. My (mild) psoriasis is improving as well.

It's absolutely something I'm doing again soon.

Oh and the scale went from 101,9 kg to 98,2 kg (224,7 lbs to 216.5)
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: rcjordan on August 07, 2017, 01:26:56 PM
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Areddit.com+fasting

I *think* Louise did 100 hours once or twice. But the hell of fasting for long periods makes her reluctant to do it again, so I notice her procrastinating longer & longer between starting. I sure can't blame her, I won't even try to fastinnocents would die. The fast-mimicking diet seems to be significantly easier, but it's still not fun.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Travoli on August 07, 2017, 03:30:58 PM
That's quite a journey in 50 hours, Rumbas!
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: littleman on August 07, 2017, 06:16:49 PM
Rumbas!  That was quite an ordeal.  If you do it again I think you should sort out the caffeine situation, going from 8-10 cups a day down to just one in 50 hours would be enough to cause anyone to feel terrible.  Those headaches from going without caffeine are hell.
Title: Re: Diet after goal
Post by: Drastic on August 07, 2017, 09:42:08 PM
Nice work, Raz. Good job pushing through, that stuff sucks.