A friend was asking how best to limit how much time one of their kids spends online (kid loves to fire up the tablet in the middle of the night). I went through some options with them, but then go thinking about a smarter way to do it. I'd be surprised if this doesn't exist, but I haven't found anything yet.
- Subscription service that acts as DNS / filter. Managed through web interfact
- Parent needs to change router DNS service to use
- Any new device connecting needs to authorise (cookie set) with parent pin
- Parent can then control access by device : hours per week, service times, blocked sites etc
It would have all the usual challenges that DNS isn't that hard to get around, but the per-device set-up seems more useful than what I've seen on offer (Just because I don't want my kids looking at midget porn, doesn't mean I'm giving it up, etc). Also ISP specific offerings and those build into routers suck.
I'm actually not into filtering at all, but device level policies managed offsite seemed sensible. In my friends case they want to limit the kids devices to being usable 7am-7pm, but everyone keeps suggesting that they turn the router off overnight (no tv, no parent internet) or set it on each device using whatever system each uses.
>Parent can then control access by device : hours per week, service times, blocked sites etc
Most routers already have a basic level of access control when it comes to devices and time of day. They could probably be made a lot more non-tech friendly, but generally you just login, identify the device and put some limits on
https://meetcircle.com/ seems like a decent solution. I haven't dug deep into it but it looks like there are a lot of options around setting time limits for different apps, filtering, tracking usage, etc.
>tablets
Dumb-ish idea that might work for young children: For crude wi-fi blocking, put in a separate router for the kids and put that one on a smarthome-type receptacle programmed to kill power overnight with the schedule locked down on an app on the parents' phone.
Of course, the older kids will just go to Walmart and buy a secret burner phone. (Seriously. I've heard a couple instances of this).
Quote from: DrCool on June 27, 2018, 12:55:10 PM
https://meetcircle.com/ seems like a decent solution. I haven't dug deep into it but it looks like there are a lot of options around setting time limits for different apps, filtering, tracking usage, etc.
That actually looks like a decent solution, thanks. I'll have a dig
Thankfully we don't need this ourselves yet. We had one long chat about acceptable use and the kids are so scared that I'll change the wifi password that they're sticking to the rule so far!
Quotethey're sticking to the rule so far!
Won't last long. :'( My girls an Angel... not....
we just have kit outside all bedrooms. Downstairs in fact. Works well for parents too. do what you like after bed time, but don't get caught.
That does not stop a burner phone. Mind you, sim cards are cheap these days. Anyone buying a burner phone can probably manage a sim card.
>probably manage a sim card.
If not, they have 10 friends who will be more than eager to help them.
>Won't last long.
Unless they're toddlers, you're already breached and just don't know it.
Gargoyle router with quotas set. If you want to deny access between certain hours, you set the quote to 0 MB. Every device gets the default quotas, and then you whitelist your own devices to let them run 24/7
Or, if you want to do a digital detox, you don't whitelist your devices.
>>>A friend was asking how best to limit how much time one of their kids spends online...
My wife and I restrict my daughter's usage verbally. She tested the boundaries a couple times to see if she could get away with it (this is natural and expected). First time a warning. Next time the device was confiscated.
Once the border probing was over she understood that this was the new normal. Done.
No offense meant to anyone, but if you need to physically restrict usage because your kid is going behind your back then that's a parenting problem.
Talk to your child. Don't yell. Just sit down and discuss. But most importantly, listen. Listen to your child's concerns and answer those.
And if your talk fails, then it's time for discipline in the form of confiscating the device. People think of discipline in terms of yelling and punishment. It's not. Discipline is about setting rules that benefit the child. Everything is about benefiting the kid, including rules.
Bed time rules are about them getting enough sleep. Children, including teens, need something like 9 hours or more of sleep in order to grow. If getting them to bed early is about you getting some "me time" then you're a failure as a parent.
It's all about the kids.
I would consider myself a failure as a parent if I had to program a Wi-Fi router to keep my teen off the Internet.
I'd have considered my kids to be failures if they'd have fallen in line with a good talking-to and a couple of confiscations. I was hell to raise --boundaries were meant to be broken. My most independent kids were the same --and, coincidentally(?), their success in adult life seem to correspond to just how hard they were to raise.
Good kids go to heaven, bad kids go everywhere else.
"Yeah, but you're not her parents, anymore, you and Helen. Her parents are Axl Rose and Madonna. The five minutes you spend a day with her can't compete with that kind of constant bombardment. You're outgunned, amigo." --True Lies
Quoteyour kid is going behind your back then that's a parenting problem
Roger... not to offend either, but...
Consider this: My parents would scold me for wiping my mouth on my sleeves at dinner. My grandmother cut sleeves off my uncles old shirts an pulled them on as napkins.
Or let's look at it another way. I can solve the problem of my kid eating sweets before dinner in three ways
1. Leave a plate of cookies out on the table all day long and say "Don't eat those."
2. Lock up the plate of cookies completely out of sight and say "We'll have cookies only after dinner."
3. Have no cookies in the house and say "Sorry sweetie, we don't have any cookies."
4. Only have really, really crappy cookies.
To me, I as a kid, I would find it easiest and happiest to live in household number 3.
I added #4 because I realized that was my parents' strategy with TV - crappy little B&W tv with two clear channels. I noticed the kid next door with a big color TV and cable watched a lot more TV. Of course, if my mother had had her way, we would have watched a lot more too. The decision was economic.
>To me, I as a kid, I would find it easiest and happiest to live in household number 3
Milksop, hhh.
I can vividly remember discussing the consequences of our plans with my older brother:
"You know the old man is going to beat the hell out of us, right?"
"Yeah, but it'll be worth it."
>>Milksop, hhh.
Guilty as charged
I'm the youngest. My sister grew up in a house with a ton of rules. I had almost no rules. Only two that I really remember
- Must go to church every Sunday
- Never drive drunk or get into a car with someone drunk.
This was way, way before Mothers Against Drunk Driving. My dad had been a teacher and one night, in his little high school of about 500 kids, *seven* kids died coming back from drinking illegally.
I'm the eldest of my dad's 2nd marriage. My two older (half) brothers were hellions, I followed their lead. I was better at getting away with it. Most of my teen life was spent doing what I wanted --police, school, or parents to the contrary. If I got caught, I considered it due to my own stupid fault.
Dad's rule was pretty simple: "Don't call me from jail." And we knew he meant it.
<added>
>Don't call me from jail.
So, in my world this meant having a car and boat fast enough to outrun the authorities. And I did. Repeatedly.
QuoteI'd have considered my kids to be failures if they'd have fallen in line with a good talking-to and a couple of confiscations.
I agree with you 100%! That's the last thing I would want in any child of mine.
No offense, but I think you're filtering what I wrote through your personal experience.
I do not give my child a "good talking TO." I talk WITH my child. There's a difference. ;)
I
encourage my kid to challenge me.
That's what I mean when I say that I listen.Challenging a parent is a moment for dialogue. And I admit when she has a good idea or a solid counter argument.
I am PROUD of her if she has a good counter argument. Listening and discussing is the opposite of tyranny or top down leading. So we discuss WHY she shouldn't be on her device before going to bed and so on. And she understands it. There are times when she has a counter suggestion that makes sense and we'll accommodate her.
QuoteGuilty as charged
I'm the youngest.
My daughter is in a similar situation. Her parents are older and more experienced than typical young parents. We have read books, observed the mistakes of our siblings and friends and have taken all of that to heart.
Yes, we have made mistakes. I wished I could have worked less to spend more time with her, but I used to read to her EVERY night when she was younger, including The Hobbit. And I played games with her, including buying dozens of finger puppets and making theater productions with them.
I'm not saying my kid is the best. She's a work in progress, just like any other kid.
Lovely thread, than folks. Some great words of wisdom.
To me the router thing, is just a reinforcement of the rules talked about. Its easy to slip as parents, and with a program to shut things down at night, it helps for the time when a device is accidently left in the bedroom, the boyfriend is online, and so no sleep happens before school.
Sure there are ways to get round it, but it helps. Its an important one. I see so many childen very tired all the time.
As for time.. well, mine is running out. Lucy is 17 now, and I am taking 5 weeks off this summer (cannot afford it) but she wants to climb mountains and go sailing with me.
Time is the one thing that is in really short supply. Related, but different, some one at the sailing club said to me last wed night, when trying to persuade me to start racing mid afternoon instad of just the evening...
The trouble with people like you Rupert, is your have a watch but no time, in Africa they have no watches but plenty of time. I though that was a bit cheaky. He is retired with a lexus and a newish K6 dingy.
QuoteAs for time.. well, mine is running out. Lucy is 17 now, and I am taking 5 weeks off this summer...
That's smart!
I am conscious of my time running out as well. My daughter is 14 and going to HS this fall. We're trying to make the next four years as good as we can, full of as much time together as we can manage.
But we also give her a long leash. We let her roam alone with her friends long before some of the other parents.
Next up over the coming years is teaching the life skills to survive as an adult, like shopping, laundry and cooking. She has been rolling her own sushi for years now. :P
Quoterolling her own sushi for years now.
... beautiful1 Not personally a life goal, but get why it probably should be :)
We taught a fair number of life skills to our high school age kids (but not enough). The had their own checking accounts, prepare a few meal entrés, and even know how to wash dishes & general housekeeping. When they went to college, they were appalled at how "untrained" their dorm suitemates were. I went down to the dorms a couple of times to buy minimal housekeeping supplies, dishes, cutlery, etc. as the other kids pretty much just showed up and expected it all to miraculously take care of itself --overwhelming my daughters who were at least modestly prepared to take care of themselves but not the entire suite.
Now I consciously start training grandkids when they start showing an interest, usually 12-ish. That's mostly centered around cooking easy, safe-to-handle entrés (in the Replicator) . I tell them about their moms' experiences at college and they are pretty much aware that that most of their friends are helpless already. One or two of the grandkids have natural aptitudes for crafts and/or 'construction' projects. I buy them small tools and encourage DIY.
I've often thought basic Home Ec should be required in either Middle School or High School: basic cooking, cleaning, laundry, how to sew a button on a shirt.
I remember taking a HS class called General Business. We had to learn how to balance a checkbook, budget, how the stock market worked, types of life insurance, stuff like that. It was not required but it should have been. Stuff I learned in that class came in handy ever since.
>> Stuff I learned in that class came in handy ever since.
My household is far better off because of the things I learned in Home Ec.
>> consciously start training grandkids when they start showing an interest
Ditto. I've been teaching my grandkids some basic sewing skills, including the boys. Tote bags and pillow cases are good starter projects. The geometry is simple, the seams are straight and imperfections aren't fatal.
Favorite grandma moment ... Sophie had a flash of insight when she was two, watching an older cousin at work: "If you cut the cloth the right shape you can turn it into a dress."
> things I learned in Home Ec
I was thrashing about trying to figure out what elective I could take in the 10th grade and my mom suggested typing. The typing teacher was very young and very, very hot-hot-hot, and the room was full of good-looking girls, so that helped with the decision. Best class ever! (Typing came in handy in college, too, when everyone else was having to pay to have their papers typed up.)
Quote from: Brad on July 01, 2018, 09:17:36 PM
balance a checkbook, budget, how the stock market worked, types of life insurance, stuff like that
My brother used to go into disadvantaged schools and do something like this, but one key item was the job application. Most kids in these schools had a close relative with a felony conviction and when they got to the part of the application where it said "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" the kids would ask "Are they going to ask me this for the rest of my life."
Rooftop - did you ever find a solution that worked for you friend?
In case it got lost in all the shuffle, I'm quite sure Gargoyle will do what he wants (not as convenient as the service you envision, but it would get the job done nicely)
Quote from: ergophobe on July 02, 2018, 01:01:19 AM
Rooftop - did you ever find a solution that worked for you friend?
In case it got lost in all the shuffle, I'm quite sure Gargoyle will do what he wants (not as convenient as the service you envision, but it would get the job done nicely)
Typical friend request. Laid out a few options, including a few instructions for her router. Never even got a response!
Might teach her kids about proxies in return!
Quote from: Rooftop on July 03, 2018, 11:17:23 AM
Might teach her kids about proxies in return!
I'm sure he'll thank you in the end.