Multilingual and/or international - the best approach?

Gurtie · July 09, 2012, 11:32:37 AM

Thanks for your suggestions in my flat html thread - thought that the multilingual bit was interesting enough to deserve its own discussion though

So - say we have a site selling to UK, US, Denmark, Spain, China and Poland (I'm trying to get a broad selection here, if you hadn't guessed!). Whats the best approach in terms of language and hosting? Does this differ when the product/service offered in each territory varies?

I have always worked on the basis that

1) hosting reasonably close to the target country is a good idea
2) its not always best to totally translate a site (casino and Kasino being a case in point)
3) its very easy to hit dupe issues with different english language solutions and there's no perfect answer.....

So already I have problems

stever · July 09, 2012, 01:36:13 PM

Domain name
GWT (set location)
Hosting
Local (country/language) links
Language tag

Always best for user to totally translate site at a professional level, probably eventually thus for site owner. (All those who use auto-translate or cheap as chips translation services for non-MFA sites, please continue... we are loving yous, dear sirs.)

Btw, do not auto-redirect by IP address or I and others like me will haunt the waking dreams of your tormented descendants unto the 12th generation.

Rumbas · July 09, 2012, 01:46:04 PM

Well put Stever.

Make SURE you have the ccTLD, the meta lang and of course localized content in the native language. I wouldn't stress about hosting locally at all if all of the above is on par.

>do not auto-redirect by IP address

Agreed! We dont want you to deside how we should consume your content. Gimme flags thank you very much

Gurtie · July 09, 2012, 01:54:36 PM

thats interesting - I tend to take the approach that you auto direct by location but make it VERY easy (flags or dropdown top right) to switch to any other version. You'd prefer to land on the default at all times?

I guess thinking about it if you search in English you'd like to see EN whatever your country. That does raise the issue of what to do when the products differ by country though?

Rumbas · July 09, 2012, 02:05:38 PM

Being auto redirected is a pain.
You dont really know what I want as a user and I could be sitting in Sweden (40 km away) but being Danish I want Danish language stuff and NOT Swedish. i might have my browser set to English (I do) but I'm in Denmark.

Have the users choose but do it so that it's clear you have a local option. If I search in Danish, I get Danish language sites and problem is solved. Hardly never ever would the Swedish or German site pop up in my searches.

If I search German or English I exepct DE/UK results. Hence there shouldn't be much of a problem?

stever · July 09, 2012, 02:18:28 PM

I'm hundreds (thousands?) of km/miles from Rumbas, but what the man said.

Quote from: Gurtie on July 09, 2012, 01:54:36 PM
thats interesting - I tend to take the approach that you auto direct by location but make it VERY easy (flags or dropdown top right) to switch to any other version. You'd prefer to land on the default at all times?

Generally speaking, probably yes, given the propensity of geeks to assume they know best if you give them an inch/cm. Seriously, as Rumbas said, if I am searching and you have set it up correctly, I'm anyway coming in on the correct page and language. So no need to redirect.

Even these responses from two generally rational people should give you pause in assuming you know what the user wants and the level of disgust likely to be experienced when such redirects do take place...

Adam C · July 09, 2012, 02:34:55 PM

depending on your site architecture and content, it may be relevant/advantagous to cross link in a spiderable fashion between different language versions of the same content

e.g. on

http://example.co.uk/red-widget.html

link to

http://example.fr/rouge-widget.html
http://example.it/widget-di-rosso.html
http://example.de/rot-widget.html

In my experience, it suits some content better than others

Gurtie · July 09, 2012, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: stever on July 09, 2012, 02:18:28 PM
Even these responses from two generally rational people should give you pause in assuming you know what the user wants and the level of disgust likely to be experienced when such redirects do take place...

quite.... but I'm English and assume johnny foreigner will understand better if I shout

OK - so thorny issue then. I have a site in each language. My Danish retailer sells products a, b and f but not products c, d and e. Someone in Denmark (where only my Danish retailer delivers) searches in English. What do I do on the English language site to ensure that the poor guy doesn't spend hours selecting his red widget only to find we don't sell the shade he wants there?

stever · July 09, 2012, 04:02:59 PM

Quote from: Gurtie on July 09, 2012, 03:43:28 PM
OK - so thorny issue then. I have a site in each language. My Danish retailer sells products a, b and f but not products c, d and e. Someone in Denmark (where only my Danish retailer delivers) searches in English. What do I do on the English language site to ensure that the poor guy doesn't spend hours selecting his red widget only to find we don't sell the shade he wants there?

Make it clear that delivery from that site is only in the UK (or wherever it may be). International clients who speak a number of languages are quite used to finding their way around (and, in the case of finding something that is only for sale in one country, getting friends to bring it with them/ship it).*

That's part of the reason why an automatic redirect is so infuriating.

(* How do you think we get Dickinson & Morris pork pies and sausages?

)

Gurtie · July 09, 2012, 06:27:38 PM

would you apply the same rule to things as large as furniture?

and - for Bill and anyone else less close to Europe/US/Canada - do the same rules apply if you're in Asia but looking at a UK owned brand?

stever · July 09, 2012, 07:06:56 PM

Quote from: Gurtie on July 09, 2012, 06:27:38 PM
would you apply the same rule to things as large as furniture?

If I was looking at a .co.uk site (or other obviously UK-based site) one of the first things I would do would be to check whether they ship internationally (and how much they would be likely to sting me for it) - especially for something like furniture.

It's getting a bit hypothetical, but I guess I would ask the local supplier if there was a possibility they could do a custom order if there was something that I particularly wanted? (Or is the preference for me not to know that different ranges exist? I don't think there is particularly a negative in that sense - it's a pretty normal scenario.)

bill · July 10, 2012, 02:05:57 AM

Quote from: Gurtie on July 09, 2012, 06:27:38 PM
and - for Bill and anyone else less close to Europe/US/Canada - do the same rules apply if you're in Asia but looking at a UK owned brand?

Generally the advice above is good. Redirect me or switch my language by IP and I will hunt you down.

No machine translation...ever. Get the local country domain (ccTLD).

However, there are places you need local hosting. China is the best example of this. When I go to China and surf sites hosted outside the Great Firewall it's like being on a 56K modem. Very painful. If you're targeting the China market you'll want to host in China...Shanghai, Beijing or both.

Korea is another special market. You may want to hire a local SEO who knows the ropes there because everything you thought you knew about SEO is turned on its head there.

You may want to consider a busier, flashier design for Asia. They prefer noisy sites. A clean minimalist design gives the market a different impression.

Gurtie · July 10, 2012, 07:03:30 AM

thank you all - invaluable advice as always

jetboy · July 10, 2012, 10:30:02 AM

QuoteYou may want to consider a busier, flashier design for Asia. They prefer noisy sites. A clean minimalist design gives the market a different impression.

Good point. If this does end up being driven from a common platform, you certainly don't want to be limited to exactly the same template for each locale. I'd imagine that over time you'll find out that different call-to-action colours work best in different countries etc., and you'll want to be able to change CSS at the very least.

Rumbas · July 10, 2012, 01:43:28 PM

Good points all around. Great thread.

>Someone in Denmark (where only my Danish retailer delivers) searches in English

Not gonna happen, unless you sell iPhones, hosting or computers. Eg. products that have the same name/definition in all languages.

Personally if I search in English, I expect English serps and results. I'm also aware that most UK/US stores will not ship or charge me a fortune to ship here.
I hate, hate, hate it when I get English results on my pure Danish searches. Example; I search for "flybilletter" (flights) and I get Kayak or Expedia.com with English content in my serps. Getouttahere...