Home printing an assualt rifle

[dogboy]

>'zip gun'

heehhe you might have something there, LM.  But somewhere in all this the costs just don't work out for me. If you don't have the money to buy yourself a gun then where are you getting a 3d printer from?  Plus, dont forget, this is pretty much illegal.  If you manufacture a gun, you need to register it's creation and put your name on it and address. Even if its a revolver - it doesn't have to be a machine gun. If its a machine gun you have all sorts of hoops to jump through.

Plus, don't you want something that you can trust your life on? Pay the money. Get a good one that kills the bad guy, and not you, and be done with it:)

[Gurtie]

but outside the US very few of those apply - I probably couldn't, and nor should I, get a licence for anything more extreme than a shotgun, but I could easily get a 3d printer and start supplying my local gangs with machine guns as a way to earn a bit of cash. In which case the fact they may not e very reliable isn't going to worry me much (obviously I would conceal my real identity with a fake mustache)

Dear internet monitoring service people - I will not do this. Promise.

[mick g]

I think you will find most of your local gangs will already be armed to the teeth with guns made out of metal

[dogboy]

>I probably couldn't, and nor should I, get a licence for anything more extreme than a shotgun

What's more extreme than a shotgun?  



...That's my 'go to' gun, next to my bed.  If you want someone 'dead dead' you can't find a better handheld weapon.  It's massive firepower.

Speaking of crazy cheap weapons, how about one of these $60 badboys for your over the counter flare gun...

The Sub-Caliber Flare Gun Insert is perfect for boaters, campers or hikers. The  insert simply slides into your 26.5mm flare gun to allow you to fire .45 Long Colt/.410 Shotgun Shells or use the other insert for .22. The rifled steel barrel is in encased in a lightweight corrosion resistant adaptor adding minimal additional weight. The offset barrel is positioned to make for a pefect shot every time. To top it off, the insert slides right into your 26.5mm flaregun and is ready to shoot, making installation foolproof.
Dimensions:
Length: 4"
Weight: .10 lbs
Fits in 26.5mm Flare Guns
Please be aware that this product turns your flare gun into a firearm when inserted and all state and Federal laws must be followed. BATFE LETTER INCLUDED. We cannot ship this item to billing or shipping addresses in NJ, MA, NY, CA, or Cook County(IL) under any circumstances.
(flare gun and ammo are not included.)

[dogboy]

Gurtie...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD0PKDGlwiw&feature=youtu.be

[mick g]

>>>That's my 'go to' gun, next to my bed
is that pump action ?

[Gurtie]

I think of them more as  four legged pest control. but yes, I know they're pretty dodgy. But they are the most common gun licence in the UK because there are many legit reasons to own/use one whereas there's less reason to need a pistol in your everyday life.

[dogboy]

Yeah, Mick.  It's a Mossberg 590. It's a civilian version of the military model.  (Since that picture was taken, I removed the sling, cut 3cm off the butt, and added my flashlight so I could see at night.)

My guns are all for hunting and self defense... then I take them to the range or the woods to target/skeet shoot.  Other guys buy guns strictly for target shooting.  These guns are usually set up with lighter triggers and different (more precise) sights. Combat guns have sights that assume closer distance and accomodate the need for quicker target acquisition. Hunting guns are usually more limited in their capacity. The hunting version of that same Mossberg, for example holds 5 shells, but there is a removable plug that limits that number to 3, which is the legal limit when hunting small game in many States. To put that in perspective, mine holds 9.

For self defense guns, I like simple. When I lived in the sticks, I used to carry a S&W .44 revolver in the backcountry, with the sled dogs. All metal, can't jam, doesn't freeze in the cold, no manual safety, can kill anything in North America at close range (if you hit it right). When you need it, you pull the trigger and it goes off. In the shotgun world, the 'pump' is like the revolver - VERY reliable. In fact, that's why the military uses them and the Remington version.  It's also quite versatile because you can change your loads from a handful of teeny tiny BBs, all the way to one 1oz lead slugs that are effective to well over 100 meters... or through a concrete block wall, or engine block:)

The other reason I choose the guns I do is because I'm left handed.  I need to be able to do everything a right-hander does, although I don't necessarily have to do it exactly the same way.  That Mossberg, unlike the Remington, has an ambidextrous thumb safety, similar to my old double barreled hunting shotgun, which I'm used to.  The 44 has no safety ...and if I cant kill whatever is charging me in 6 bullets, I'll be using it as a club before I ever have time to reload:)

On the other hand, my new Sig SP2022 (which would not be a good moose killer, but is great on people sized animals) has no safety and a magazine release you can flip to the other side (like the Beretta 92 it's replacing) so I can drop the clip with my thumb and have access to another 15 rounds. My deer hunting rifle is flat out left handed only and holds 4 enormous bullets that allows me to reach out 300+ meters without issue. Usually the other 3 bullets are not necessary and get put back in the box:)

So it all depends on what your needs are.  If I lived in an apartment building, I'd still keep the shotgun next to my bed, except it would be loaded with those 'less lethal' rubber bullets that wont go through the wall and kill my neighbor (but would probably kill the intruder at such close range, despite it's name.) Then, on the weekends, I would take it target shooting, and hunting once a year.

...sorry for the digression. I'm going to the range again today and am so excited about that Sig:) But getting back to the manufacturing of guns I still think the flare gun/.410/.45/.22 inserts are pretty awesome.  Littleman, can you make a zip gun cheaper than I can buy the flare gun and an insert?

[Chunkford]

So... when are the tickets available for weekend shooting excursions @ dogboy ranch?
Us UKers live a sheltered life

[dogboy]

Well, now that I live in Florida, I can't say I can offer you much more fun than any of the other pro-gun States.  You can rent pretty much anything you want to try.  Once you get the basic safety concepts down, you can pretty much figure them all out on your own, if you are at all mechanically inclined.

Actually, when I teach anyone to shoot, the first couple lessons happen in a house with an unloaded gun, and maybe a few 'snap caps' (aka 'duds') if it is a semi handgun.  That way I have the person's undivided attention and they feel relaxed.  If you have someone that isn't super confident in themselves and you drag them into a confined indoor firing range, you can overwhelm them.  Like anything else, I like to set some expectations so they know exactly what we are going to do, and why, before we ever do it.

I will also say guns, in some ways, are like dogs... each breed was designed for a certain purpose.  Before you learn anything about anything, you need to understand what you are supposed to use and when you are supposed to use it.  So really when you say you like guns, its like saying you like 'dogs'.  It narrows it down a little but it doesn't tell me what you want it to really do. Some guys live and breath to hunt. Some are precision marksman. Defense is all about urban threat vs wild animals, and what is the biggest thing you can realistically carry for the biggest threat you are likely to encounter. Everything is a spectrum.

I am not a video game guy but I have some younger friends that are.  They play first person shooter games which have shockingly realistic weapons. But since they have never really shot those guns in real life, or really understand where each gun shines or where it sucks, they don't always choose the right weapon for the situation and it affects their score notably.  I find that interesting because it's almost like a simulation model of what would happen in real life.  I mean, obviously its not realistic to be able to carry all the guns under the sun with you at one time.... and all the ammunition.... but when you use your MP5 instead of a sniper rifle at 200 meters, or you are using your sniper rifle inside, when you should be using your MP5... it's no wonder you are having trouble.

But surprisingly, just as the flare gun example shows, guns are really pretty simple and most current designs are at least 100 years old in origin.  Technology wise we have kinda hit a plateau.    

[dogboy]

I guess I should also say that stats on guns and violent crimes are a touchy subject because they were concocted by both sides of the fence.

Most people that die of gunshot wounds actually shot themselves in the head. And since suicide in this country is a crime, it now becomes a 'violent crime' that tops some charts, despite its not exactly as some make it out to be.  I think it goes without saying, you stand a much better chance at surviving such an 'attack' if you don't intentionally shoot yourself.  The other vast numbers of deaths are really related to tough drug laws, not lax gun laws.  This is where everyone IMO is screwed up.  The war on drugs didn't work.  Regulation is not the answer. It's the problem.  Make the drugs legal and there will be no money in it for organized crime and gangs. If you go this way, then there will be no need for more gun laws.  The criminals using the guns to commit crimes are already using illegal weapons, for the large part anyway, so more laws wont help.

As far as the recent shooting in CO, or the worse one in Norway a year ago, these were meticulously thought out planned attacks, neither would have been prevented by a longer waiting period, etc.  Remember, we already have a law that says you cant kill another person.  And they are intentionally breaking THAT law.  It doesn't really matter when and how.  Is it better if they blow up homemade bombs, or drive their car into a crowd of people?  Unfortunately it's pretty easy to kill unarmed unaware people, when they aren't expecting it. Psycho loonies hell bent on killing random people are going to succeed, one way or another.  

As far as the Second Amendment goes, the last Supreme Court ruling was exceptionally clear when it re-examined this entire case.  That's right.  In 2008, the Court ruled in District of Columbia v. Heller that the Second Amendment protected the individual right to keep suitable firearms at home for self-defense.  The founding fathers put it in there for a reason.  And that reason had to do with the the English Bill of Rights which protected the right of Protestants to own and carry weapons, but denied that right to Catholics. And they felt everyone had a right to defend themselves, independent of religion.  And that is also why you don't hear that much about it today... informed people already know the answer, and the politicians found out that Americans like their guns more than the politicians, and anyone that is against guns gets kicked out of office... which caused them to shut up.

[dogboy]

..ok, I'm getting off the pulpit, onto my bike, and over to the range and live the American dream for maybe an hour and call it a week a little early today:)

[mick g]

a lad who works for me bought one very similar a couple of months ago and we went clay pigeon shooting last month. its an awesome shotgun, your only allowed to load 3 cartridges due to UK gun laws but when your walking round looking like Rambo is quite cool and the amount of other people there shooting who head turn to look at the gun is unreal

it will take 8 cartridges if you removed a piece of card but then it becomes a fire arm

[dogboy]

Tell him he should get some Dragon's Breath for it...
http://youtu.be/WwhCygmhbCg
...That stuff looks great:) The first 2:45 seconds are them demoing the ammo. After that they explain zirconium.

[TallTroll]

I'm pretty sure incendiary rounds wouldn't be legal in the UK without a Section 5 licence. And good luck getting one of those

If you've ever played Black Ops, one of the single player campaign missions starts you with a shotgun / Dragons Breath as one of your starting weapons (Hue City, where you go to "meet Reznov")