Scotland's going to go independent

[rcjordan]

>better together

Fuck that. We anarchists want to see what would happen. Couldn't be much worse than it is now.

>outside

Massive Scottish influence on colonial North Carolina.  In fact, the last Scottish broadsword attack in a major battle was here, not over there.

[Brad]

If Scotland votes for separation I'm going to hoard stock up on The MacAllen sherry cask just in case there is a bureaucratic SNAFU on imports and exports between the USA and independent Scotland. Purely for medicinal purposes.

[JasonD]

I think the NATO angle is a huge part of it, but the financial repercussions are even bigger. When you put financial stability with mega weapons issues, the last thing any Westernised nation wants is another clusterfuck similar to when Eastern Europe broke from Mother Russia.

[Rooftop]

I see no problems in us keeping the full name (even if Scotland leaves)

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Scotland is voting whether to become an independant nation by leaving the UK. The rest of Great Britain isn't voting to change and will continue to be all it is, within it's formal name.

The reason that is contentious is that "Great Britain" is a geographic term that describes the chunk of land we sit on and have arbitrarily carved up into England,Scotland and Wales.  We can change political borders, but geographical boundaries are physical.

That said, my money would be on "The United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland" - everyone will just need to fight over the order.

I'm still hoping for a no. My family connections to Scotland and Wales are more distant and I don't feel especially connected to either.  I have though always identified with being British over English. 

[grnidone]

Gurtie:  Why do you NOT want this?

>In fact, the last Scottish broadsword attack in a major battle was here, not over there.

?? Link, please...

[Rupert]

Gurtie:  Why do you NOT want this?

Can I answer that too?

Because Together we stand divided we fall.
our Standing in Europe will diminish.
Our standing in dealing with the USA will diminish.
Because it will cost a hugh amount.
Because Alex S is talking about opening the boarders while at present it seems we are trying to control the boarders.
because there will be problems with Trident.
Because our standing in Nato will be diminished.
Because when it goes wrong they will just blame the English.
Because it will go wrong when they spend spend spend.
There is not much oil left, but they insist there is to fuel the spending.



Thats just off the cuff, half asleep, there are loads more.Its a stupid idea, and the only winner will be one man, and he will make a fortune out of it.  I think the people of Scotland are being pulled along by the heart strings and ultimately played for mugs.
He cannot deliver everything he promises, and i believe he will deliver not a lot.

[rcjordan]

>>broadsword  >link

http://www.nps.gov/mocr/  Factoid down at the bottom.

[sugarkane]

Can I answer as well?

Because the whole thing seems to be being conducted on a wing and a prayer - 'Vote Yes for independence, worry about the details later, it'll all be brilliant honestly'. I've no problem with independence per se, but being so cavaliar about something that will also have huge consequences for the 92% of the UK population who don't even get a vote is both dangerous and disrespectful.

[Rupert]

On the one hand, I would not expect the other EU nations to have a say in whether the UK is in or out of Europe.

[probably contentious ]
However, There was a war between the north and the south in the USA when the south wanted out.  They were not allowed to go. This is similar... Its NOT like a colony wanting independence.
[probably contentious /]

Other snippets
Apparently Argentina are looking on with interest.
Norway and the rest of Scandinavia has no interest in Scotland
Europe is terrified... if Scotland goes, the Basques will be next, and then every small group will be wanting to go it alone.  Even Yorkshire.

Now getting Grumpy old Man
300 years ago we took in the Scots because they were bankrupt... are we likely to want to do it again?

[sugarkane]

Oh, I wouldn't expect to get a vote, I'd just like to see the whole thing conducted in a more grown-up manner (on both sides) seeing as it affects millions of other people.

[Mackin USA]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/world/europe/separatists-around-the-world-draw-inspiration-from-scotland.html?_r=0

[Rupert]

sorry Sugarkane.  No mean to you, I agree.  That bit was to proceed the War of Independence . 

good article that. in the NY times. 

In his view, Britain has failed to give the Scots and Welsh proper representation in Parliament,

A view that is disassociated from reality.  The Scots get more air time/money than the rest of England. (In my view .

[JasonD]

> The Scots get more air time/money than the rest of England.

Agreed, but I think the issue is many think of England by default rather than Britain.

A week to go, we'll know soon enough whether Europe collapses or we carry on united.

[grnidone]

>think of England rather than Britain.

I shouldn't say this, but people over here consider that whole group of islands to be "England."  Meaning, we kind of see it as the "generic" word for "Great Britain.

>Because Alex S is talking about opening the boarders while at present it seems we are trying to control the boarders.
Uuuuum....what boarders?  And to whom?  Can nobody immigrate to GB?

>because there will be problems with Trident.

Who/ What is Trident?

[JasonD]

>>think of England rather than Britain.

> I shouldn't say this, but people over here consider that whole group of islands to be "England."  Meaning, we kind of see it as the "generic" word for "Great Britain.

That was my point Heather.

> borders

Immigration is a big and contraversial topic here

> Trident

Is the name of our nuclear powered and nuclear armed submarine fleet.