The Birth of D Weapons > this $hit is real

[Mackin USA]

According to top secret documents from the archive of NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden seen exclusively by SPIEGEL, they are planning for wars of the future in which the Internet will play a critical role, with the aim of being able to use the net to paralyze computer networks and, by doing so, potentially all the infrastructure they control, including power and water supplies, factories, airports or the flow of money.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/new-snowden-docs-indicate-scope-of-nsa-preparations-for-cyber-battle-a-1013409.html

[Gurtie]

I guess thats no surprise. I'd be a bot worried by any government who wasn''t thinking like that frankly (I really hope our own civil servants are a bit brighter than our politicians appear to be in this area)

We had an incident in the UK when an RBS software upgrade went titsup and chaos ensued ffor everyone who didn't get their money or access to it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_RBS_Group_computer_system_problems .  If that had been wider spread, or more basic infrastructure, or both, then it would have caused massive problems. You can only imagine what a coordinated attack desiged to cause most damage/panic/chaos would do.

This is the one area where I do think I'm a bit of a prepper - some cash under the mattress (we do not do this Mr Burglar) and enough fuel to reach your important family and back, plus basic things like being able to make bread, fix a machine and make heat/light are important. 

[ergophobe]

We've known this for quite some time, basically since the first Gulf War.

Short story, Saddam Hussein supposedly, in the wake of the collapse of the USSR, had the third largest army in the world after the US and China. The US came in with far fewer troops than Iraq, but with massively superior information infrastructure.

This jolted the Chinese who were still counting soldiers + tanks + planes = winner. They realized that a smaller, information-aware US force could not be beaten and that matching the US technology would be incredibly expensive.

However, hackers who could infiltrate and neutralize that US edge were not that expensive, and so launched the cyber wars, with Chinese worming themselves into the electrical and water infrastructure and much else in the US with the idea that they would cripple as much infrastructure as possible.

We've taken sorry few steps to harden our infrastructure (which would have benefits not just in the case of war with the Chinese, but also in event of natural disasters, massive solar flares or what have you), but we have bumped up our offensive ability because, much like the Chinese calculation, that's the biggest bang for the buck if you're thinking only in terms of conflict with an adversary and not all the other benefits of hardening the system.

[Mackin USA]

SOOOO, what would be YOUR top list of things missing IF the electrical grid when down for MONTHS assuming that you are not Amish 

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/what-are-you-going-to-do-when-a-massive-emp-blast-fries-the-u-s-electrical-grid

[buckworks]

top list of things missing

In my location right now, our most immediate concern would be staying warm, as we heat with electricity. We're having a bit of a mild spell right now, but this time of year we can expect temperatures as low as 40 below.

If the problem happened during the warmer months, our first concern would be what to do with the food in the freezers. In a "normal" power failure our generator could keep the freezers going, but only as long as its fuel supply lasted. However, in a total grid-down situation I'd wonder if whatever caused it would fry the generator too.

We're equipped for cooking and lighting without electricity ... for a while. Even if we lost what's in the freezers, there's enough food in the pantry to last several weeks. The menus would get weirder as time passed.

We have water stored which would last a few days. If our village couldn't keep the water system going, we could get water out of the neighbour's well with a bucket and a rope. Yes, we have buckets and ropes. No, we don't have a wagon to haul those buckets.

This is a truly scary thought experiment ...

[Gurtie]

I think we'd be reasonably ok for heating, cooking and food, with the probability that we could cope water wise if we were organised about it, so better than most. But that's assuming the climate didn't change and things weren't so bad that people were shooting each other.

scary indeed.

[Brad]

>>SOOO

Biggie is means of heat in winter.  I have a natural gas stove but I'm going to assume natural gas supplies or pressure would fail over time.

I have a small propane camping heater but that won't last long.

Food: fair amount in freezers to use up first, decent stock of canned goods in pantry. Ive got two 30 day, emergency dehydrated food containers from Costco.  Camp stove and propane cylinders squirreled away.

Water: I have a decent supply of water purification tablets

Transistor radio with short wave bands and lots of batteries.

[Mackin USA]

You go Brad

Propane will be essential to heat & cook when everything electric is worthless.

BUT, it may never happen > hhh

[Gurtie]

>> two 30 day, emergency dehydrated food containers from Costco

1. wow - is that normal for the US, I tend to think of you as relatively normal Brad (!) and you're prepping?

2. costco? wow again. Asda will have them next....

[Brad]

Gurtie, they have a 25 year shelf life too.   

I'm a child of the Cold War and grew up reading way too many post apocalyptic books like "Alas Babylon" so its not a stretch for me to be paranoid *looks around*.

I think Costco sells quite a lot of these off their website.

Hmm, maybe I should buy a tent just in case I need to bug-out...

[Travoli]

>normal

Unfortunately not, i think.  But it makes sense to have a few basics.
They could be useful if a storm knocks out utilities for a few days.

For cooking, all you need is a Solo Stove.  Burns very small twigs or whatever you've got.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008W0MJJU

[JasonD]

All of this talk reminds me of the Red Dawn movie.....

Wolverines!!!

[Brad]

One thing we might be overlooking: if the water supply goes down it means the loo won't work either. But hey Amazon has camp pottys.

[buckworks]

the loo won't work

So pee in the back garden. Or pee into a bucket and pour it down one of your drains. Presumably the drains will still work even if other things are down.

Find an old Boy Scout handbook and learn how to make a pit latrine. If you don't already have a trowel or shovel, acquire one. The time to think these things through is now, before you need it.

Hopefully you never will.

Mahatma Gandhi said something to the effect that good latrines were just as important as good laws for the well-being of a nation.

[Mackin USA]

"Presumably the drains will still work even if other things are down."

Not if your septic system uses a pump to send $tuff to the drain field

ANYWAY:
Without food in the stores, you will POOP less