Solar

[ukgimp]

RC it's pretty sunny out your way. So why don't you have solar cells on your roof?

Curious after having seen the Tesla presentation a few weeks back.

[rcjordan]

A] Aesthetics. They look like crap.

B] No one ever mentions that it'll be expensive to move the panels when the shingles need replacing.

C] I don't want another job. Managing/maintaining batteries and inverters is work/pita.

D] ROI. I'm only spending about half what a house this size normally spends on utilities due to passive/efficiency. 

[Mackin USA]

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Rest-in-Peace-The-List-of-Deceased-Solar-Companies

EXAMPLE [see chart]
http://seekingalpha.com/article/266129-is-evergreen-solar-flirting-with-bankruptcy

The current EPA directed by the WH has it's head up its A$$ - imfo 

[Brad]

> shingles

I'm wondering if a asphalt shingle roof would last longer being protected from direct sunlight by the panels?

> batteries

Yeah, lead acid batteries in my basement don't thrill me.  These Tesla battery packs for the home sound promising.

I think the industry will grow as in many places it is cheaper for the utility company to subsidize home solar that try and build a new power plant.

[rcjordan]

>>shingles

The tar paper is really what has to be replaced. It's the water barrier.  The shingles are more of a watershed and wear surface.  Tar paper off-gasses, dries out, and needs replacing.  We lay paper & shingles in overlapping courses, so --unless you were to put copper or aluminum substrate under the panels to make a metal roof-- you're going to have to get under those panels to do a good reroofing job.

>>batteries

PITA

>>ROI

WSJ: July 31, 2015

The costs of residential energy efficiency investments substantially outweigh the benefits.

From a recent National Bureau of Economic Research Working Paper, "Do Energy Efficiency Investments Deliver? Evidence from the Weatherization Assistance Program," by Meredith Fowlie, Michael Greenstone and Catherine Wolfram:

Conventional wisdom suggests that energy efficiency (EE) policies are beneficial because they induce investments that pay for themselves and lead to emissions reductions. However, this belief is primarily based on projections from engineering models. This paper reports on the results of an experimental evaluation of the nation's largest residential EE program conducted on a sample of more than 30,000 households [in Michigan]. The findings suggest that the upfront investment costs are about twice the actual energy savings. Further, the model-projected savings are roughly 2.5 times the actual savings. While this might be attributed to the "rebound" effect—when demand for energy end uses increases as a result of greater efficiency—the paper fails to find evidence of significantly higher indoor temperatures at weatherized homes. Even when accounting for the broader societal benefits of energy efficiency investments, the costs still substantially outweigh the benefits; the average rate of return is approximately -9.5% annually.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/notable-quotable-1438383116

I went for the relatively low-hanging fruit when I built the house in the mid-80s.  It's paid off, I guess, but probably just barely.  **BUT** we've lived in this house for almost 30 years, the average American moves every 7-9 years. Not long enough to recoup.

Now, even with gov subsidies and overlooking the no-pay job that accompanies the batteries and array maintenance, I'm at the point of much-diminished returns.  If I do anything, it tends to be expensive AND there's not much of a utility bill to reduce.  Say I spend $30k and get off the grid. I'm currently spending less than $3500 per year. Doesn't make for a good investment.

[Rumbas]

Obama thinks you should get up to speed with wind and solar power and now all our green energy companies are exited as we think you'll buy the tech from us.

[rcjordan]

>up to speed

http://th3core.com/talk/water-coolerextra/opec-u-s-oil-imports-at-historic-low/msg33503/#msg33503

My state, North Carolina, is approx 6 million and the 10th most-populous state. Up until the last year or so, large-scale alternate energy projects just didn't seem to materialize here though our rural geography and strong sun & winds would seem to make it a natural.

Note the date of that post: October, 2014

Since then, my region --and coastal NC in general-- has had a boom in alternate power construction. There is one large solar panel array literally on the edge of town and several others nearby with plans for more.

[Gurtie]

>> $3,500

wow - and that's low for the US? Or do yoou have industrial needs to run your toys?

[littleman]

What's been happening locally is that every government parking lot is putting up solar cells in parking lots.  All the libraries, and schools are making these semi-carports with cells on the roofs.  It seems to be a good use of space, and provides shade for the cars.  There has been a big upswing in electric cars, lots of Teslas, Fiat 500es mostly.  The percentage is still pretty low, but growing.  We're at 20% renewable right now in California, not too off from Germany at 27%.

[rcjordan]

>low for the US
>>RC it's pretty sunny out your way

Considering I live at lat 36.24N (same as Gibraltar) with 355 sq meters of living space in a house with large amounts of glass (56 sq m), it's pretty good.  We pay $.10/kwh here.

Also, I'm total electric. No natural gas or LP.

[nffc]

>wow - and that's low for the US?

It's a big house

>Tesla

Caught a Tesla taxi in Amsterdam the other week, awesome marketing "if it works for a taxi driver..."

[littleman]

>taxi

Nice!  It'd be fun to take a ride in one.  The factory is not too far from here, I should look into going on a tour.

[Brad]

The "Energy Cloud", the future?

Profound technology changes across the electrical grid are ushering in an era of decentralized electrons. This emerging energy cloud landscape, a concept that borrows from cloud computing, represents a range of technical, commercial, environmental, and regulatory changes that challenge the traditional hub-and-spoke grid architecture.

http://www.navigantresearch.com/research/the-energy-cloud

http://www.forbes.com/sites/pikeresearch/2015/04/13/the-energy-cloud-is-transforming-the-power-sector/

[rcjordan]

"There is no cloud. It's just someone else's computer solar panel."


Utilities wage campaign against rooftop solar

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/utilities-sensing-threat-put-squeeze-on-booming-solar-roof-industry/2015/03/07/2d916f88-c1c9-11e4-ad5c-3b8ce89f1b89_story.html

[rcjordan]

Amazon Wind Farm U.S. East under construction about 10 miles north of town.

the $400 million project's first phase will include construction of 104 turbines that generate up to 208 megawatts

http://www.coastalreview.org/2015/08/officials-tout-amazon-wind-farm-deal/