the Dumbing Down Of America

[rcjordan]

Sometime over the last few weeks I had a conversation about the above topic. May have been in Hanoi.

Exhibit A
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/06/12/wayne-state-drops-math-general-ed-requirement/85648592/

[ergophobe]

http://time.com/4327424/idiocracy/

[littleman]

The US was in a unique position after WWII.  Europe and Asia were devastated and we were able to supplying the world with goods without much competition.  I think the confidence, the cold war and pride carried us though the mid-60s.  Since then over-confidence has been our biggest weakness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

Fortunately, we have a good amount of immigrants that are willing to hustle to get ahead -- and that may be what gets us through the next 70 years.  That and the birth rate declines in rest of the industrialized world.

That said, we are talking about a school in Detroit, Michigan.

[ergophobe]

Actually, the Wayne State article runs in the other direction - they think it's redundant b/c most college-bound kids have that math already

"This decision was made largely because the current (math) requirement is at a level already required by most high school mathematics curriculum," the school wrote.

In my dad's era (who was a high-school math teacher for part of his career BTW), you could go to a decent college having had just algebra. I doubt you could get in many decent schools with that today.

Not that I disagree about the dumbing down of America in general...

[ergophobe]

OK... I don't even know what these numbers mean, but it does not appear to be a highly selective university

Incoming freshmen with at least a 2.75 GPA have no SAT or ACT requirements for admissions, but submission of test scores is still required. Those applicants with a GPA between 2.0 and 2.74 must have an ACT score of at least 21 or an SAT score of at least 970. High school graduate with a 2.75 GPA or higher must submit test scores, but there is no minimum score requirement. Students with a GPA between 2.0 and 2.74 must have ACT scores of 21 or SAT scores of 970.

Read more: Wayne State University (WSU, WSU) Introduction and History - Detroit, MI http://wayne.stateuniversity.com/#ixzz4BZeEJKav

[update] I do know what it means. 970 SAT  puts you in the 4th percentile and qualifies you for 126 schools out of 1306
http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/scores/970-SAT-score-is-this-good

[/update]

[littleman]

Everyone should see the first five minutes of Idiocracy -- it is a terrible movie, but the beginning of the film has a lot of truth in it.

On the other hand, most great predictions tend to be overstated because imbalances are often self-correcting eventually.  Also, I know a lot of very bright kids.

[rcjordan]

My discussion wasn't in Hanoi but with a proponent (son-in-law) of doing away with homework.


New York school abolishes homework.
A growing number of schools are doing away with homework. Some experts think it's a step in the right direction

article and video
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Education/2015/0306/New-York-school-abolishes-homework.-Does-homework-do-any-good-video

[nffc]

>Also, I know a lot of very bright kids.

Asian?

[littleman]

Not all of them.

[rcjordan]

In another conversation, I was asked about my opinion of the charter school movement in NC.  On the one hand, it's largely a form of white flight. OTOH, there's plenty reason to flee -racist or otherwise.

[ergophobe]

I know some really bright kids. Brains + focus + vision. Mostly not Asian.

I also think that in general, kids' lives are too programmed and. I got little to nothing out of any homework I did before college** and from what I see with kids today, they are loaded with far more of that pointless work that I was.

I never thrived academically until I got to college and I was allowed to learn things more my way without pointless busywork that got in my way. I don't learn by doing the odd math problems, 1-21 every day...

Of course, I outsmarted them and mostly just didn't do the homework. I remember my father saying "I wouldn't mind if you were trying your hardest, but how can you be missing 17 out of 23 assignments?"

My answer: "I don't like the teacher."

**The exception were formal term papers and statistically-based lab reports. Those taught me a lot and comprised some tiny percentage of my lifetime homework before college.

[Brad]

>the Dumbing Down of America

Too late, we're already there.  Most people are as dumb as a sack of hammers.