Anyone know anything about Photovoltaic energy in the UK?

[Rupert]

The reason I ask is I have a couple of folks to come and quote for installation.  Our government set up a scheme that will pay me back at about 41.3p per KWhr if I use it or not (cost is 12p from the grid, or there abouts)

http://www.spssolar.co.uk/ReturnOnInvestment/ReturnOnInvestment.asp

It was on the money programme on Sunday, and they seemed to thing that the only winners are the people who take it up... the rest will have to pay more for the elec.


It is called FIT, (Feed in Tariff) and seems too good to be true.  The current government has said they will guarantee it as well, so at least to 2015.


I think that the idea is that by getting people to take it up, the cost of the kit will come down for everyone else.  Usually it is the early adopters who have to pay through the nose.

added:http://www.energynow.co.uk/solar_grants.htm

[Gurtie]

yup we've had it for about 10 months now  and have earnt back more than 10% of the cost of installation already, although we were lucky and managed to get both the 25% grant and the FIT because we timed it right. Basically in addition to savings we've had a cheque for £500 and change, and are waiting on another of about £250, with I would guess about a further £150 to take us to the end of the 12 months, from the FIT.  FIT is also guaranteed to be index linked, although I'm not absolutely convinced that will happen. We'll see I guess.

With a 1.8KW system we've generated 1617k to date and are probably going to end up with about 2KW, but thats on an almost perfectly south facing roof with no shading. In the summer we were buying in 20 units of electricity per month (and exporting a lot more, but the export amount you get paid for is calculated rather than actual at present because the electricity companies can't get to grips with it). We have had some weeks were we've generated as little as 5 units (mainly when it snowed) but in the summer we're had days when we've generated 12 units. (I'm sad, I have a spreadsheet, I'll ping you a link!)

Its definately worthwhile if you're going to stay in your house 10 years. We checked things out with estate agents before we installed it and they suggested no increase in house price because of it but no decrease and an easier sale. Our mortgage and insurance companies were also both fine, and our council were fine although at that stage they could require you to go through planning (rules have now changed I think) and we're in a conservation area. Some councils also provide grants so its worth checking it out, its a postcode lottery for that unfortunately.

I recommend The Green Electrician if you haven't already spoken to them (and if you tell them I suggested them I think I get a kickback, but I would recommend them anyway as they were brilliant).

[Rooftop]

We looked at this a while back as we have a big old south facing roof.  Numbers didn't add up for us as our current house isn't for the overly long-term.  Local estate agents also said that there is reluctance to take over the contract by some buyers locally - I guess it's a different market in our neck of the woods.

If I could bind the children's feet and stop them growing and stay in the current house for 10yrs plus I'd give it a whirl though.  As you say, it seems like a no-brainer in those circumstances.

[Gurtie]

well, there's no contract if you buy the system outright. If they want to remove the panels they can just switch it off and rip them down and its gone.

There are several companies out there who will install the system, you get the cheap electric and they get the FIT payments.

This is sort of a good deal if you use a lot of electric, and its a genuine offer but personally I would be reluctant to do it if I planned to move, for 'taking over the contract' reasons, and reluctant to do it if I planned to stay because a big benefit is in the FIT so why let someone else have it.

[Rupert]

Oh yes please Gurtie  Your was about 10K for 1.8 w system then?

Can you see any point in not producing as much as you can?

[Gurtie]

the FIT payments are on a sliding scale, I think if you have a more than 4K system you get less per unit (not at all sure thats the breakpoint) and the assumption is that you export 50% of what you generate, so although this is only a couple of pence per system there will be a point where you'll be paid for considerably less than you actually export - at some point presumably they'll sort out the meters so it can be measured properly.

Because we have a tall thin house with a velux window and a chimney we would struggle to get more panels on, with hindsight we might squeeze in another two, but we have 10 for a 1.8 system so we'd not be gaining much, not worth retro-fitting, anyway.

I think if you have the roofspace and money in the bank there would be two reasons to get a big installation, the financial investment is looking good at the moment, and the benefit to the environment is obviously a draw for most people. Both of those have quite well grounded moral arguments against them actually, but on balance I think its better to do what I can do now, and I also don't feel too  much guilt at profiting from other people subsidising these schemes, at least the're getting an indirect benefit from this which they wouldn't with the 10k in stocks while they subsidise the banking system!

There do seem to be differences between advice from installers as to potential - ours was perfectly happy with our roof and the panels have been fine. As a community project our group of 50 houses have also been looking at a community install, but the surveyers for that have said they would only put a 1kw system on the roofs because of the windspeed across the hill (avoiding having panels too close to the ridge, I think). That was a funded project where someone else gets the FIT though, so I think they have a whole load of insurance and investment criteria they have to meet in addition to 'what will work and be safe'.

[Rupert]

Gurtie,
thx for that, and the spreadsheet. I dont' think I would bother with going for the free fitting, it seems the profit is made by someone else for that, might as well have it myself.   


I have a small 10m2 of directly south facing, and loads of east and west facing, which I understand can work as well, so I will have to see what the chap says now.  My Neighbour is thinking of it too, so it doubles the strength of the negociation.

 

[rcjordan]

Mind if I jump in, Rupert?

My only concern with solar panel installations is that most do not address future maintenance and repair of the roof.  If the panels are installed by attaching them directly to the structure then it will likely cost an exorbitant sum to remove them in order to get to the shingles/tiles or membrane.  I'd require a 'rail' or track system for mounting.

[Gurtie]

mines on a rail system - basically they attach to roof timbers, tiles relaid as normal, and then panels on top of the rails. Not sure if thats how they all work or quite how easy they would be to remove yourself, but in principal its quite do-able (and in my case it gave me vertigo doing the pointing up by the roof, so I'm certainly not about to retile it myself!)

[rcjordan]

>rail system - basically they attach to roof timbers, tiles relaid as normal, and then panels on top of the rails.

Sounds good. If the rails are structural aluminum or 304 stainless steel, that's even better.  Put the supports in  lead pitch pockets as they penetrate the roof and I might sign off on the job as being excellent.

<added>
All bolts and fasteners should be 304/316 stainless steel, too.

[Gurtie]

lol, next time you're in the UK you can come and inspect them.

Here you go - I presume ours uses the Tritec system (towards bottom of page) http://www.thegreenelectrician.co.uk/pv_products

[Rupert]

rcjordon....

good point, I will ask about that.  As Gurtie says, won't be me going up there

[Rupert]

Well, my 4Kw system was installed yesterday, and on a cloudy day I have generated 10 KWhrs.

The panels are 17 235W peak power Sanyo hybrids, and I have 2 arrays, with 6 facing south, and 11 facing west (approx) . Estimated at nearly 20% efficient.

The west facing array woke up first this morning, all I can say is they were awake at 7.45 am and both are still just awake at nearly 7pm , still very grey, but only producing 88 watts, so not enough to do much.

I am hoping I can get a similar payback as you are heading towards Gurtie, but only time will tell  

RC, the roof fixings are quite simple. They remove a few tiles, screw a bracket into the roof, and then replace the tiles on top, cutting the odd one to make room for the bracket. Aluminium rails are then attached to the bracket, and the PVs  screwed to the rails.  They come off in 10 mins.  Really quick fixing.

I have a Wattson monitor from diykyoto, that tells me when I am making more power than I am using, so I can put on the washing m/c or the tumble dryer. 
http://shop.diykyoto.com/products/wattson-renewables

I have also purchased a vphase, which reduces the incoming voltage to 220v, and is supposed to save 10% of the fuel bill, and mean you get 10% more out of your panels.
http://www.vphase.co.uk/
That is to be fitted in the next couple of weeks.  All I need now is some LEDs that replace 50W 12V halogens.  I have tried loads that claim to do it, but none are as bright.

The closest I have got is 35 watt equivalence.

[Gurtie]

sounds good!, you have twice as many panels as me and they're probably more efficient a year on, so you should generate a load. Are you getting seperate readings for the south facing and the west facing? Be really interesting to see the difference.

[ukgimp]

What was the installtion cost please.