Core continuing commitment to health and fitness

[ergophobe]

Nobody has posted here in a while. So here's one from the new feeds for you endurance athletes


Much Ado About Zone 2
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40560504/

TL;DR - the idea that Z2 is best for mitochondrial adaptations and fat oxidation is mostly based on observational studies of high-volume elite athletes. The rest of us can get a lot of benefit from higher intensities.

This is not very different from what appears in the "serious" fitness press - elite athletes do so much Z1 and Z2 because
1. They are doing huge volume and higher intensities would break them down
2. Their velocity at Z2 is still really high which means that esp. in a sport like running, they already get a lot of breakdown there.


Personally... good summer. Staying pretty active. Getting a few long days and some short ones. Some nice scrambles in the high mountains, some nice easy runs on the flats. Not as much "hard" climbing as I would like. The heat of midsummer always takes away my will to stay on the climbing train.

[Travoli]

I've been doing 3 hours of zone 2 per week for a year now. It's made a significant difference. It takes a lot more to max my heart rate playing sand volleyball. I'm outlasting some players ~20 years younger in the TX Summer heat.

[Adam C]

Much Ado About Zone 2
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40560504/

TL;DR - the idea that Z2 is best for mitochondrial adaptations and fat oxidation is mostly based on observational studies of high-volume elite athletes. The rest of us can get a lot of benefit from higher intensities.

Interesting stuff.

I'd be curious to know how they are defining elite and the rest of us.  e.g. is there a training volume threshold identified where z2 and under becomes more beneficial.

I find myself as a cyclist believing I should be doing more zone 2 and lower training, but time crunched and impatient, squeezing in more zone 4-6 work in lunch hours or evenings twice a week in a good week.  I try most weeks to to get a weekend long ride (3-4 hours) around zone 2 but without a power meter and usually without HR monitor, meaning at best I feel my way towards z2 and try to resist going harder.

[ergophobe]

>> they are defining elite

In theory, of course, that's based on results. But in practice, the people getting elite level results tend to be somewhere in the region of 800-1200 hrs/yr for runners and quite a bit north of that for cyclists who don't have to deal with the same level of mechanical breakdown.

And I gather that is part of the point of the article. For those of us getting a few hundred hours per year in, we should not be at 95% easy volume.

After his Olympic Gold, they asked Frank Shorter to write a training book. Reportedly he said no because it would be the shortest book in history: "One long run, two workouts and as many easy miles as you can do in a week."

I think the point of the article was to bring us back to that. In other words, your non-negotiables for performance are the long session and the workout sessions (e.g. intervals) and then whatever you have time for. The elites have time for so much volume that after they've done their two workouts (or possibly four workouts if you're doing two days of doubles like Jacob Ingebritsen) those easy miles end up being a huge amount of time.

Also, as a general rule, as you get older, it's both more important and more dangerous to add in high intensity.

We lose power faster than almost anything else, so maintaining power is important for anyone over 40, which means doing things like sprints, Olympic style lifting, plyometrics. We just have to be careful not to wreck our joints or throw out our backs since power cleans might help maintain power, but catastrophic injury definitely does not.

[Rupert]

I think most of you have a routine going now, and this is something sue and I still struggle with.  At 61, we really know what we need to do, but motivation is constantly identified as the problem. 
To fix that we are reading The  DOSE Effect, by  T. J. Power, and it is helping, as we are more aware of what is making us feel good, and what gives us a rush and crash.

I recently got back from a Motorbike trip to Northern Pakistan and having lost weight (No I didn't get Cholera, just no beer, active riding every day, and no sugar,) we have both started goting to the Gym, to start getting some strength back.

It is something I have resisted, as I would rather by doing something, but we both need to up our strength to avoid injury. Sue has been plagued with them for the last 9 years or so.

Here goes!

Just spent an hour catching up on here. Good to see you all still busy, finally got all my spam filters sorted, and so get the Digest email again

[buckworks]

https://www.wired.com/video/watch/the-science-of-super-agers

A thought-provoking article about aging and "health span", which was mentioned by Ergophobe earlier in this thread.

------

In personal health news, my eye doc has started the paperwork for me to have cataract surgery, likely in the spring. For years I was told that my cataracts "weren't ripe enough" but now the doc is saying that it's getting to be time.

[ergophobe]

It's interesting how much attention he pays to inflammation.

He also mentions the new p-tau tests which from what I've read are >90% sensitive and >90% specific for dementia. I've thought of getting tested given how rampant it is on my mother's side, but most of the interventions are already things I'm doing... though I could cut down on sugars some I guess.

Good luck with the cataract surgery. Everyone I know has had a good outcome. My dad is able to drive at night again and he's 96 (and still a good driver).

[Rupert]

Yes good luck with the opp.

Sue and I recently had bloods taken for our. Tau protein concentration.Not sure if it's the same thing.

We volunteered for a dementia drug test, but our levels are fortunately too low so we're not signed up.

[ergophobe]

I loved this video. 89yo Bob Hayes running a couple years before his death in 2018.

I think it has something extra for me because, despite having moved out of VT over 60 years earlier, he still speaks like a Vermonter and reminds me of the old farmer types in VT when I was growing up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AnPe_3x50Y

20 minutes. Kinda slow. Like Bob.

[ergophobe]

As you start to make your New Year's Resolutions and think about strength training (how's it going Buckworks) here's a new study hot off the presses to help achieve gains, not injuries

Resistance training load does not determine resistance training-induced hypertrophy across upper and lower limbs in healthy young males
https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/JP289684

Key takeaways from Stu Philips, the PI on the paper
https://x.com/mackinprof/status/2006416324562432343

Note, this study primarily concerns hypertrophy (building size) not strength, which is different but there is a loose correlation between size and strength. You can get a lot stronger without getting bigger and a lot bigger without getting stronger, depending on your starting points, which is why the top weight lifters (both Olympic and power) are much smaller than the top bodybuilders, but can lift much more at a given weight. However, not also that the top weight lifters look very different from the top marathon runners.

HOWEVER, they found

Strength gains?
Also, similar between loads, unless you practice the test itself.
Heavier training mostly improves 1RM because you rehearse heavy lifting.

In other words, a lot of the outsized strength you get from training heavy for a given lift does not translate to a different but similar lift, so if you are thinking in terms of health rather than competition, the conclusions for hypertrophy largely hold true for strength.

The study had an interesting design. Participants lifted heavy on one limb and light on the other. There was no variation between heavy/light, but there was a considerable variation among individuals, leading to the conclusion that your biology matters more than your training protocol

9/
Important myth check:
More load ≠ more muscle
More pain ≠ more growth
More complexity ≠ better results
Effort-to-fatigue (and volume) are the key drivers.

10/
Practical takeaway:
Lift loads you can tolerate.
Train close to failure.
Accumulate volume.
Progress over time.
Stop obsessing over "optimal" load.

11/
This study reinforces a growing conclusion:
Resistance training adaptations are largely governed by endogenous biology, not gym dogma.
If your program works for you, stick with it.
If it doesn't, changing load alone probably isn't the answer.

[ergophobe]

Another study

Everyone has known for centuries THAT exercise keeps muscles stronger with age, but we still don't really know HOW it works. A new paper fills in a crucial piece of the puzzle. Interesting science

How exercise fights muscle weakening that comes with age
https://www.futurity.org/exercise-muscle-weakening-aging-3319112/

[DrCool]

First off, yes, I am still alive. Don't know why but I haven't popped in here much lately. Will work on changing that.

My wife, 14 year old, and I have started powerlifting this past year. My wife will actually be competing in her first competition in February, has a coach, and all that. My son and I are just primarily training on the 3 powerlifting lifts (squat, bench, deadlift) and doing accessory lifts to compliment those.

I am shooting for a 1000 pound total by probably late summer. My total right now is 700 (245 squat, 175 bench, 280 deadlift). Another goal is to outlift my 14 year old as long as I can. Not sure how long I will be able to keep that up but I have to keep the kid in his place for now. 

So far I have been able to avoid any sort of injuries. I have bad ankles, mediocre knees, and a wrecked lower back but I have been focusing on good technique to avoid any major pain and it has worked so far.

[Adam C]

Another goal is to outlift my 14 year old as long as I can. Not sure how long I will be able to keep that up but I have to keep the kid in his place for now. 

  very familiar story.  My 11 year old is a good cyclocross and mmountain bike rider / racer.  I'm trying to stay faster than him for as long as possible.

I love the dynamic as its win / win.  He wants to beat me and I think I'll be proud when he does.  We'll see.  Hopefully in about 10 years!  Probably 5, but please not sooner.

[ergophobe]

My strategy with the 17yo (not my daughter - a dear friend who is the daughter of my college roomate) is to keep increasing the distance. I no longer have any hope in a 5km, but about 30km into a 50km a lifetime of motion seemed to outdistance the vigor of youth.

I just hope she sticks with it long enough to kick my ass at the long distances too.

[Adam C]

>>keep increasing the distance

This works!  Our benchmarks are much smaller for now.

My son beats me in a 20 metre sprint from the traffic lights.  50 metres, no contest currently.

As his fast twitch capability is going to develop ever faster than mine declines, it could be an interesting benchmark to track... max distance where son beats Dad, over time.