UK Vaping death.

[gm66]

A sobering read for anyone who thinks e-cigs are better :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7518913/British-factory-worker-57-worlds-person-die-disease-linked-VAPING.html

Seems the oils stay in the lungs.

[ergophobe]

Lots of press about some deaths here too. Juul coming under a lot of fire.

[littleman]

Juul's spending on proposition to overturn SF's e-cigarette ban soars

Will be interesting to see how this turns out.

[ergophobe]

Juul's spending on proposition to overturn SF's e-cigarette ban soars

Having seen fawning articles on the founders, it reminds me of one of my favorite sayings: "Every villain is the hero of his own story."

[rcjordan]

CDC clarifies stance on vaping illness, admits that bootleg THC products are likely to blame

"CDC notes that over three-quarters of people who have reported lung issues after vaping already admitted to using street-bought THC oils"

https://bgr.com/2019/09/30/vaping-illness-health-cdc-thc-products/

[gm66]

CDC clarifies stance on vaping illness, admits that bootleg THC products are likely to blame

"CDC notes that over three-quarters of people who have reported lung issues after vaping already admitted to using street-bought THC oils"

https://bgr.com/2019/09/30/vaping-illness-health-cdc-thc-products/

If weed isn't grown organically there's high a aluminium content due to the inorganic fertilisers which ends up in nanospray form when vaped, there's an article about it somewhere i'll try and find.

[Chunkford]

And in contrast, there are 8,000,000 smoking related deaths a year.

I could go on as for the reasons why all this bullshit, but I like to think the people here have a greater intellect and see the news for what it is and the political shadiness that goes on behind the scenes.

[Drastic]

Not sure what is going on in the UK, but in the US this is very much not bullshit. The media have whipped the problem up into something it is not, though, as usual.

We have a counterfeit THC cart problem here where the weed is grown with stuff that kills you and/or mixed with oil binders that can kill you. Yes, the problem is small because it comes from this smaller (than traditional vaping or smoking) group of people running into these products. So, yes, we are talking hundreds of deaths only, for now. But, it's not because of just vaping and the numbers are much smaller due to minor medical issues. They are putting contaminants in conterfeit carts that kill people, full stop.

This is a real issue where a couple of oil binder suppliers mysteriously closed shop and disappeared a few weeks ago when people started dying.

[Chunkford]

Okay, bullshit was the wrong term to use. People are dying which is a major tragedy however you look at it, so I apologise for that.

But the issue I have is vaping nicotine (e-cigs) has nothing to do with it. It's vaping HTC.
For well over a decade people have been vaping nicotine and all of a sudden some idiot(s) decide to use vitamin E acetate as the base of their HTC products.

[gm66]

There's some research that indicates nicotine may contribute toward DNA damage that enables cancer :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4553893/

Latest info from CDC on US vaping deaths : https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

[Chunkford]

Here's a response to that research that may contribute towards DNA damage - https://www.bmj.com/content/351/bmj.h4863/rr-13

We could post links all day, arguing this and countering that, but the crux of it all is the comparison should always be against vaping nicotine vs tobacco, not vaping nicotine vs nothing.
Else if vaping nicotine is deemed unsafe and there is a ban, then tobacco needs to go too. Which to be honest, would end all this as there wouldn't be a need for an alternative. But it will never happen. Tobacco is tied up into society too much - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/13/council-pension-funds-major-investors-tobacco-companies
Instead, for the ones who's addiction is too much, and no matter how much money is pumped into campaigns to make people stop smoking or raising the taxes or tightening the regulations, e-cigs offer an alternative. Not a safer alternative I should add, but one that is miles away from tobacco.

[littleman]

>but the crux of it all is the comparison should always be against vaping nicotine vs tobacco, not vaping nicotine vs nothing.

I agree.  This is my main issue with the SF ban, though they claim the reason is that JUUL and the like are attractive products for kids. 

[ergophobe]

So I didn't even know what Juul was until the current issue of Time magazine and that's pretty much all I've read, but two of those points are addressed in the current article and an older one.

>>Not a safer alternative I should add, but one that is miles away from tobacco.

"Juul Illegally Claimed That Its Products Were Safer than Cigarettes, FDA Says"
https://time.com/5672210/juul-illegal-marketing-fda/

---

>>they claim the reason is that JUUL and the like are attractive products for kids.

Among high school kids:
2011: 2% vaping, 16% smoking = 18%
2019: 28% vaping, 6% smoking = 34%
https://time.com/5680988/juul-vaping-health-crisis/

Along with that, they claim that the Juul device was designed to hide easily at school

[Chunkford]

I agree.  This is my main issue with the SF ban, though they claim the reason is that JUUL and the like are attractive products for kids. 

It feels a bit more than that.

Back in 1988 the US states agreed to the MSA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agreement
In short, tobacco companies make annual payments based on sales to the states for lawsuits, medical care and anti-smoking campaigns.
Banks, investors etc then offered the states the cash up front so they could spend the money before they got it.
Back then, sales were high, then came along ecigs that fall outside the MSA, reducing the sales of tobacco quicker than they anticipated.
The states are now in trouble and owe more than they received leaving a shortfall that needs to be bridged - https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/tbcbonds-statemap
(note the sates that owed more are the states that were the first to implement some sort of ban - Michigan, New York, Massachusetts and California)

Anyway, in fear of sounding like I have a tinfoil hat on I'll stop. I'd like to think people's lives are worth more than that.

[gm66]

Mayo clinic results out : http://www.startribune.com/mayo-researchers-link-vaping-illness-to-toxic-inhalation/562002532/?refresh=true