Author Topic: Hydrogen as a fuel  (Read 7016 times)

Rupert

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Hydrogen as a fuel
« on: September 10, 2014, 08:35:06 AM »
http://cellaenergy.com/

These guys had an article in my Mech Eng mag this month, that is not yet picked up by the net it seems.

They have done a deal with an airline to test the use of a material that releases hydrogen when heated. It is cheap to make, and hold 3 times the power my weight as a lithium battery.

Quote
Cella’s production process takes a material with one of the highest useable hydrogen contents by weight, and turns it into a hi-tech composite by incorporating polymer. The material forms a microporous plastic-like solid which can be pressed, shaped or extruded into any form and to fit any space. The material production uses commercially scalable methods and Cella is currently capable, through toll manufacture, of making many tons of the material per year.

Each gram of Cella material produces up to 1 litre of hydrogen gas, giving it a very high specific energy (energy per unit weight), making it ideal in mobile or portable applications where weight is crucial. The material can be packaged into a cartridge that, combined with a fuel cell, has two to three times the specific energy of a lithium-ion battery, or to make a system comparable to 700 atmosphere compressed hydrogen but without the same safety concerns or cost of infrastructure.

With our proprietary processes, the material can be pelletised to form a solid fuel with fluid properties. This overcomes the challenge of transporting large quantities to filling stations and gives drivers a similar filling experience to the liquid fuels of today. One of the biggest challenges facing the roll-out of hydrogen cars is the investment in high-pressure filling stations. With a fluid-like transport system for Cella fuels, existing pump and tanker technologies can be used with minimal alterations.
Our hydrogen storage technology:

    Does not need high pressure
    Does not need cryogenic temperatures
    Has high specific energy (energy per unit weight)
    Has stability at room temperature
    Can be shaped into any spare volume in a vehicle
    Has no harmful emissions



I think that is amazing. Hydrogen storage solved if its right. Any one making power, at any time could theoretically make these pellets.  I Know it is still a way to go, its made small scale in a plant at the mo, but.....
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littleman

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2014, 03:19:54 PM »
Interesting stuff.  So it sounds like this substance is depleted and then needs to be replaced.  This makes me have a few questions.  What happens to the non-hydrogen part of this plastic-like compound?  Does it go up in vapor?  I am curious to know what is in it and how safe it is for the user and the environment.  If it stays in a solid form how is it discarded?  The composite needs to be heated up, how much energy does that take in relation to the energy that is released?  How much energy in needed to make the compound?

I know a lot of people wrongly think of hydrogen as an energy source when they should be thinking of it as a means of storing and using energy, but it would make sense that this process would have a bigger overhead than using compressed hydrogen gas.  So, I'd be curious to know if it is just a small difference or much higher.

jetboy

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2014, 05:14:29 PM »
@LM, from their website:

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Technically Cella’s material is based on a chemical hydride which means it has excellent performance but it requires a chemical process to recycle it back to its pristine state.

Our scientists and engineers are working hard with chemical industry partners to take the known recycling methods and scale them into a cost effective industrial process.

The use of Cella material’s in pellet form that can be pumped like a fluid makes it easy to use simple inexpensive pumps, like those used in a vacuum cleaner, to move the material into and out of a vehicle and to transport it by tanker to and from the recycling plant.

Time will tell whether they're legit.

buckworks

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2014, 05:29:47 PM »
The make-or-break question will be how much energy it takes to create the pellets versus how much the pellets can deliver.

Rupert

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2014, 07:56:46 PM »
I believe compressing hydrogen takes about 30% of its energy FWIW.  The idea of finding a compound to store it in is to reduce that overhead in part. Also you can store more hydrogen in something like this than you can as a liquid I believe.
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rcjordan

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2020, 08:13:57 PM »

BoL

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BoL

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2020, 01:06:29 PM »

rcjordan

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2020, 06:52:09 PM »
Wow!

The problem with hydrogen for 'retail' consumption is the lack of fueling stations, but for carriers like trains/planes/ships that load up on bulk fuels, it will take far fewer hydrogen stations. 

ergophobe

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2024, 02:57:29 AM »
Rust to riches: Swiss iron reactors store hydrogen 10x cheaper, safer, longer
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/rust-to-riches-swiss-iron-reactors-store-hydrogen-10x-cheaper-safer-longer/ar-AA1pEjxe

Interesting. Using a stainless steel container with walls only 6mm thick, the Swiss stored 10 megawatt hours of hydrogen as rust for months without any appreciable energy loss

They are planning on building a 2000 cubic meter storage facility that will store 4 GW hours.

So let's see, that's 20m tall by 11.2m in diameter.

Basically a big battery to store excess power produced by solar and wind. If it as cheap and effective as advertised, that is a game changer.

littleman

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2024, 07:56:29 PM »
Sometimes I really wish I was a chemistry major.  This is fascinating.

Quote
At these temperatures, hydrogen extracts oxygen from iron oxide or rust, making water and iron. This is much like charging a battery, where energy is stored in water and iron and can be retained for months without major losses.

In winter months, when energy demand is high, researchers can run hot steam into these reactors. This reverses the process, forming rust and releasing hydrogen gas. The hydrogen can be used to generate electricity in a fuel cell or even burned as fuel to move a turbine.

I didn't know rust could be unmade, I'd like to see a demonstration of how hot steam could do that.  I'd like to know the overhead of energy required to steam up the rust to get the energy out in the form of hydrogen.  I'd imagine it isn't a small percentage.   This is simple and brilliant though.

rcjordan

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2024, 10:16:23 PM »
Electrolysis of rust releases hydrogen & oxygen

https://youtu.be/1l3Dt5-zxPs?t=414

littleman

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2024, 12:11:45 AM »
Thanks RC, that video is pretty cool, but I don't know if that is the same process.  The article makes it seem like the rust can form and unform on the same bits of iron, vs how it is moved to another in the video.  It also mentions steam as the catalyst.

rcjordan

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2024, 01:34:28 AM »
> I don't know if that is the same process

No, I was just showing a related process.

Found a chemistry class vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNmFqMPo7VM&t=786s
Iron  Reacting with Steam - YouTube

littleman

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Re: Hydrogen as a fuel
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2024, 03:22:48 AM »
That's a nice demo.  Thanks.