The Core

Why We Are Here => Economics & Investing => Topic started by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 01:43:00 PM

Title: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
Quote
Welcome to the crash of 2011. With stunning speed, global markets have sold off to a degree not seen since the worst days of late 2008 and early 2009. In fact, only three times in the past 40 years have stocks sold this hard this quickly, with a 16 percent decline in the S&P 500 in a 10-day period surpassed only by drops in the Octobers of 1987 and 2008.

(http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/0808-stock-plunge/10583185-1-eng-US/0808-stock-plunge_full_380.jpg)

No one can say precisely when or why this will end. Its triggers we know: a flawed debt deal in the United States, renewed sclerosis in the European Union about peripheral debt issues in Greece and Italy, a downgrade by Standard & Poor’s of U.S. sovereign debt (oh, the irony of S&P downgrading debt leading to a precipitous decline in the S&P index), and then a wave of global selling. No market has been immune; not one.

[....]

These moments create ripples of fear that build like tsunami waves until they crash with destructive force against the shoals of investor confidence, institutional balance sheets, and collective investing psyche. And more than ever, they race around the world unimpeded by national boundaries and uncontainable by central banks. This is a fact of our global system, the downside of the upside of ample liquidity and the ease of getting it from one place to another. And no matter how much we’ve said this over the past three years, when it happens, it is visceral, breathtaking, alarming, and in its own way awe-inspiring.

[...]

But it’s imperative not to get utterly sucked into that alternate reality of high-frequency machines driving prices down everywhere, with a logic strictly of flow and numbers. The internal language and logic of the markets is related to what is going on in the real world, but right now only tangentially. Stocks aren’t selling because of the Washington debt deal or now even because of yields in Italy. They are selling because they are selling. Apple this week is not a company with 12 percent less business than last week; Caterpillar is not about to sell 30 percent fewer earthmovers in China or Brazil. China is not about to purchase 25 percent less iron ore.

[...]

The crash of 2011 is already a bad one by any historical standard, not Great Depression bad, not crash of October 1987 bad, and not the continual collapse of 2008–09 bad, but bad enough. In 1987, the market rebounded very quickly; in March 2009 it did as well. If we are October 1987, it’s time to buy; if it is December 2008, watch out. We will only know the answer to this in retrospect, but this feels more like a crash than a new trend, and like any flash fire, these burn quickly, intensely, and then they stop. You don’t want to be in these markets when this is happening, but you also don’t want to be out of these markets when they reverse.

-http://news.yahoo.com/why-markets-melting-015300351.html

...what are you guys doing?  Time to buy some Apple, Cat, Iron? Sell? Panic and do nothing? Buy that cabin I was telling you about in CO and sit in my bomb shelter?

(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/zCtN3vJ1203Qq_z3ALdKrA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD00MjA7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2011-08-08T215550Z_01_BER610_RTRIDSP_3_GERMANY.jpg)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: Drastic on August 09, 2011, 02:40:40 PM
Me, I'm going to spruce up and rework ads on a financial site that just took off.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: grnidone on August 09, 2011, 02:51:13 PM
I'm in the process of paying off ALL my debt and saving cash.  I was wondering when this would happen...and, I think since the dollar is going to tank even more than it already has, I'm going to see work overseas.  I'm sure a good copywriter/ SEO/ Jack-of-all-trades will do quite well for odd jobs.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: agerhart on August 09, 2011, 03:43:53 PM
Quote
what are you guys doing? 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there isn't much you CAN do if you have a decent amount invested and you're down.  If you sell, you're f###ed out of the losses.  Gotta wait it out.

And if you have the funds, go in and start buying up more stock at the low prices
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: Rumbas on August 09, 2011, 03:51:40 PM
Got out a few months ago. Seriously considering dropping some cash on stocks again as they have never been cheaper.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 04:05:41 PM
>there isn't much you CAN do
Depends on how you play the game. We're in S&P for the long run, so yeah, we do nothing.

But if you think it's really the beginning of more losses then there are some that might sell, hold the cash, wait for it to bottom then buy, knowing it will rebound.

Hypothetically:)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: agerhart on August 09, 2011, 04:45:31 PM
Quote
But if you think it's really the beginning of more losses then there are some that might sell, hold the cash, wait for it to bottom then buy, knowing it will rebound.

Risky game if you ask me....you never know when its the bottom or the top, and going after something like that could mean you lose even more.

Call me a pansy, but I'm going to sit tight and wait for it to come back.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 05:33:16 PM
>Call me a pansy
well, misery loves company... have a seat, beer's in the fridge in the garage:)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 05:37:12 PM
flashback:
http://th3core.com/talk/water-coolerextra/who-is-buying-gold/
...I was talking about gold at $1200, now I hear it broke $1700.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 09, 2011, 09:01:22 PM
Seriously considering dropping some cash on stocks again as they have never been cheaper.

Same here - BUT with the caveat of waiting for what looks like a bottom, or near enough. Nothing worse than investing only to see it tank.

At present I figure the FTSE 100 will spend the next few months moving down towards 4500 then 3500 again.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: littleman on August 09, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
> ...what are you guys doing?
REITs and Business Development Corps.  Also, preferred stocks.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 09:49:22 PM
Quote
The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index jumped 4.7 percent to 1,172.53 at 4 p.m. in New York, its biggest gain since March 2009, after tumbling 6.7 percent yesterday. The 10-year Treasury yield fell as much as 28 basis points to 2.03 percent before trimming its decline. The Dollar Index slid 1.2 percent, its biggest drop since October, while the Swiss franc strengthened as much as 6.5 percent to a record $1.4099.

...the buying window for easy money just closed, in my mind.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: littleman on August 09, 2011, 10:05:50 PM
Hard to time the market.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 10:11:42 PM
Quote
NEW YORK (AP) — Stocks are rising at the closing of trading after the Federal Reserve said it has discussed policy moves it can make to spur the economy. The Fed also said growth has been slower than expected.

The Dow Jones industrial average is closing up 429 points, or 4 percent, to 11,239.77.

Stocks rallied in the last hour of trading. Stocks initially fell after the Fed made its statement, which included a pledge to keep interest rates at their record low until at least the middle of 2013.

The S&P 500 is up 53, or 4.7 percent , to 1,172.53. The Nasdaq is up 124, or 5.3 percent, to 2,482.52
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 09, 2011, 10:20:24 PM
>Hard to time the market.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YEPUswpbMc
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: littleman on August 10, 2011, 07:17:54 PM
>...the buying window for easy money just closed, in my mind.

That's the thing about windows, they tend to keep opening and closing...
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 11, 2011, 07:53:47 AM
Think we'll see the FTSE 100 try and maintain suport around the 5000 mark at present, but will fall lower over the coming months. There is just no good economic news, and plenty for the markets to panic about.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: eurotrash on August 11, 2011, 09:15:23 AM
Back in 2001/2/3 I was buying 10oz silver bars on 47th St in NY for around $50-80 if I remember correctly and I am sure some were cheaper than that because I remember getting change for $100 buying 2.  I called up the company yesterday for prices and it is over $437 a bar plus tax.

I remember a guy I worked with in NY thinking I was an idiot because I had to store them all.

btw.  The helmet I am wearing in the pic is 147 ozs
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 11, 2011, 11:42:43 AM
>The helmet I am wearing in the pic is 147 ozs

What an epic statement:)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 18, 2011, 11:08:15 AM
Today with the FTSE 100 falling to 5200 the banking stocks I watch (RBS, BARC, LLOY, HSBC) have gone past their lows when the FTSE went to 4800.

As I figure the FTSE has further to fall, will be interesting to see where these go.

Seeing an opportunity perhaps in the Autumn, but am resisting the chance to jump in now as feel like will almost certainly get burned.

Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: Brad on August 18, 2011, 12:27:45 PM
I've got an investment club meeting tonight and I'm recommending buying something or increasing our stake in some company.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 18, 2011, 03:12:10 PM
FTSE 100 was down over 5% at one point, and the DJI down nearly 4% so far. Gold up to $1820.

Bear market in full flight.

Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: rcjordan on August 18, 2011, 06:48:37 PM
Crap, the last time the market did this we were at least able to find some comfort at the hotel bar in Limerick.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: Rumbas on August 19, 2011, 12:17:34 PM
Hehe, I remember that RC. We literally watched Iceland crumble and the whole world b###hing about it over a couple of Guiness pints. History repeats itself.
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 26, 2011, 11:37:50 AM
Interesting to see talk again or another Autumn crash:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8721151/Market-crash-could-hit-within-weeks-warn-bankers.html

No real detail of the signals given, but interesting to read today about Greek banks taking up a last stop emergency fund:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8723588/Greece-forced-to-tap-emergency-fund.html

Gold has dipped down - might be a time to consider buying. Anyone buying physical gold outside of the US, or just stocks in mining companies and gold ETF's?
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: dogboy on August 26, 2011, 11:55:16 AM
>Gold
IMO, gold is unique investment because it's basically liquid and physically compact... so I'd forget the paper, and just load your pockets with Kugerands and Eagles:) Gold doesn't rust, wont corrode with sea water, and most importantly, it's very shiny.  

And shiny is very important to people:)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: I, Brian on August 27, 2011, 07:43:17 PM
Just ran a search for Bob Janjuah on Google News, and there's one piece from CNBC worth looking at:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44241363

Bob Janjuah called the crash of 2008 before it happened, when he worked for RBS:
http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2008/06/18/rbs-warns-of-new-stock-market-crash/

However, he did also call a crash for late 2009 as well - instead, stock markets rallied from the early March lows:
http://www.financemarkets.co.uk/2009/08/14/stock-market-to-crash-again-in-2009/

Even still, it was maintained by Janjuah as well as Nouriel Roubini that the existing rally was a bear rally, something we are finally seeing coming to pass.

Speaking of Nouriel Roubini - one of the main prophets of the coming 2008 crash - he is also basically stating that we're heading into recession again (big surprise there):
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/fiiview/drdoomroubiniseesrecessionqe3atdoorstep_580222.html

I used to be subscribed to Roubini's newsletter, but let that lapse*, so I can't see much detail on his website of what's he's currently claiming in any detail.

* after it became overrun by articles from his cronies which were totally clueless

Btw, if not a totally stupid question, how do I buy physical gold at spot prices in the UK? Never figured that out. Or do I have to mail order from America? ;)
Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: Gurtie on August 28, 2011, 07:33:12 AM
there's lots of places to buy small assayed bars in the uk - not sure where you'd buy kg bullion bars though, if thats what you're looking for.

Title: Re: Welcome to the Stock Market Crash of 2011
Post by: mick g on August 28, 2011, 08:10:52 AM
Give Kenneth Noye a ring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brink%27s-MAT_robbery

;)