Author Topic: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs  (Read 358 times)

ergophobe

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Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« on: November 20, 2024, 11:35:55 PM »
Imitation learning... how long until humans can't compete?
https://www.futurity.org/robot-surgery-video-training-3257652-2

I have a germ of a thought running through my head. Many formulations, but it goes like this: "If you're job security is based on skill, you have no job security."

Or, "If you think your skill protects you from automation, you don't understand automation."

Or ????

I haven't hit on the formulation that I like, but there are a lot of people who tell me their jobs are secure because, "An AI will never be able to do this" (strangely, physicians commonly believe this, but so do truck drivers). They then go on to cite obvious AI fails.

rcjordan

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Re: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2024, 02:04:28 AM »
Recently...

ChatGPT beat doctors at diagnosing medical conditions, study says.

The small study showed AI outperforming doctors by 16 percentage points

https://qz.com/chatgpt-beat-doctors-at-diagnosing-diseases-1851701953

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Wishful thinking?

https://stanfordmedicine25.stanford.edu/blog/archive/2018/aitocomplementdiagnosis.html

AI to Complement – Not Compete With –Physicians’ Diagnostic Skills | Stanford Medicine 25 | Stanford Medicine

ergophobe

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Re: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2024, 02:53:34 AM »
>> Not Compete

I think in the short term physician jobs will be saved by a combination of
 - lack of trust and people who believe, contrary to all evidence, that "the human touch" matters in diagnosis (I have had someone use those exact words with me explaining why they do not want a machine-based diagnosis).
 - regulatory capture

But at the same time, I think there will be a shortage of all healthcare specialties and so the AMA may not resist *that* hard. Roughly half of physicians report feeling overwhelmed or burned out. https://www.ama-assn.org/practice-management/physician-health/physician-burnout-rate-drops-below-50-first-time-4-years

rcjordan

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Re: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2024, 03:07:42 AM »
>jobs will be saved by

Yes, for 20 years we've had proof-positive that bots outperform human pharmacists (faster with fewer errors) but the industry and the public has kept the humans in situ.  Large hospitals do hide the bot-pharmacists in the back room, though.


rcjordan

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Re: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2024, 08:41:14 PM »
https://qz.com/nyu-langone-robot-lung-transplant-1851704964

The first fully robotic double-lung transplant just happened - here's all the details
The procedure took place in October at NYU Langone Health in New York City

ergophobe

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Re: Robot trained on surgery videos performs as well as human docs
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2024, 08:48:39 PM »
My nephew has finished his cardio-thoracic residency and is now at the crossroads where he has to choose between cardio and thoracic. In the meantime, he's doing a robot surgery fellowship.

For now, robotic surgery still seems to depend on a skilled surgeon or three, as evidenced by the opening words of the article:

Quote
A team of surgeons at NYU Langone Health recently performed the world’s first fully robotic double-lung transplant,

In the automotive industry, we would call that bullshit. "A team of machinists at Ford River Rouge plant recently performed the world's first fully robotic machining of a straight six engine block."