Author Topic: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles  (Read 776 times)

Rupert

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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry-news-technology/jcb-unveils-hydrogen-fuelled-combustion-engine-technology

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JCB unveils hydrogen-fuelled combustion engine technology
JCB boss Lord Anthony Bamford says CO2-free piston engine could be a cheaper and quicker way to meet emissions targets

and

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Lord Bamford and his engineers believe they have more of a real-world view than most in the industry, because they have in recent years launched a very successful range of battery-electric diggers, plus they have considerable field experience of 20-tonne prototype excavators powered by hydrogen fuel cells. The hydrogen engine’s big advantages, explained JCB innovation chief Tim Burnhope, are that it can be speedily and affordably brought to production, while existing ICE know-how and infrastructure will remain relevant



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Brad

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2021, 10:37:37 AM »
Interesting article Rupert.  I think he has a point, EV vehicle tech isn't quite there yet and neither are fuel cells.

We would have to build a hydrogen production and distribution network but that would help both hydrogen fuel cells and this hydrogen piston engine.  Plus refueling would be faster.

rcjordan

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2021, 02:19:33 PM »
Seems like hydrogen would be perfect for trains.

ergophobe

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2021, 06:40:39 PM »
Seems like it would be good for cars if you had a better fueling infrastructure. If you never want to go more than 200 miles from LA or SF, you're all set

https://cafcp.org/stationmap

Mirai has a 402-mile range (as long as there are no hills of course).
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/

But yes, for trains, you could just put a whole tank of H behind the locomotive and cross the whole country.

Rupert

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2021, 03:36:46 AM »
you asked for it, and here it is:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200227-how-hydrogen-powered-trains-can-tackle-climate-change

actually, there are a couple of issues.  It will be expensive, (fuel cell) why not a converted diesel like the JCB one, and its high-pressure hydrogen, we know it costs a lot to compress.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 03:38:33 AM by Rupert »
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Brad

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2021, 10:20:22 AM »
> why not a converted diesel

I think JCB would be wise to target the rail market, if they can get a decent range between fuel ups.  The rail industry understands diesel so it would not be as big a leap for them to try this compared to fuel cells.

ergophobe

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2021, 05:34:05 PM »
>> we know it costs a lot to compress

Actually, *we* didn't until you mentioned it. Obvious, but I never thought about it.

Rupert

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2021, 09:22:19 PM »
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Actually, *we* didn't until you mentioned it. Obvious, but I never thought about it.

sorry, I thought we had discussed it here :)  The cost of getting it as a liquid is a lot higher than for say methane. There is a catalyst that helps, but there are issues with keeping that clean and so efficient.
I think the small size of the molecule helps here, and it is possible to get more hydrogen in a space with the catalyst that if it is liquified.  Running on a poor memory here though. 
« Last Edit: May 22, 2021, 09:23:56 PM by Rupert »
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ergophobe

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2021, 01:39:55 AM »
That rings a bell now that you say it, but I had forgotten. But don't say "sorry" - that was my roundabout way of saying thanks for pointing that out.

Rupert

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2021, 10:42:14 AM »
Ah, that was a British sorry :)  Very unlike you to forget anything Ergo :) 

I found this, and right at the very bottom is the summary. (Quoted below) It is for me a bit disappointing, this group from China are still a long way off finding a good solution (From what is published here in 2020)

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2020/qi/d0qi00766h#!divAbstract

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Safe and efficient storage and delivery of hydrogen are essential for the development of a hydrogen-based energy infrastructure. Boron- and nitrogen-based hydrogen storage materials reviewed above have a relatively high hydrogen content and have tremendous potential to be used as hydrogen sources for portable fuel cells. Overall, each of these materials has its own merits and drawbacks. The catalytic performances for hydrogen evolution from these systems have been greatly improved. Non-noble metal catalysts with low cost and relatively high catalytic activity can make boron- and nitrogen-based hydrides potential candidates for portable fuel cells. However, there is still a certain gap in the catalytic activity between non-noble metal catalysts and noble metal catalysts. In addition, the stability of non-noble metal catalysts is generally low, mainly because of their easy oxidation and agglomeration. Therefore, the development of high-activity and high-stability non-noble metal catalysts still requires further efforts.

Besides, the mechanism of nucleation and growth of metal NPs and the active sites of multi-component catalysts are not clear. Theoretical calculations and modern characterization technologies (e.g., in situ X-ray absorption spectroscopy (XAS), transmission electron microscopy (TEM), Raman spectroscopy, etc.) could be helpful in understanding the structure–catalysis relationship, thus providing an effective method to guide the design of metal catalysts at the molecular level. Furthermore, some new methods (e.g. photocatalysis assisted technology) can be developed to promote the hydrogen generation rate from boron- and nitrogen-based chemical hydrides. Additionally, to maximize the use of metal atoms, highly dispersed catalysts (e.g. metal single-atom) can be designed and synthesized for further improving the catalytic activity of the catalyst. We are looking forward to new breakthroughs in noble-metal-free catalysts for hydrogen generation from boron- and nitrogen-based chemical hydrides and their practical applications.
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ergophobe

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Re: And While we are on the subject of hydrogen powered vehicles
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2021, 03:59:12 AM »
Very unlike you to forget anything Ergo

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but if I have a skill it's in being able to look things back up, not so much in remembering them. Some days, I feel like my mind is a sieve.