Author Topic: Terminator Scenario  (Read 178186 times)

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #225 on: August 27, 2015, 08:19:05 PM »
For example, I'm pretty sure this is total BS

Quote
If Kurzweil and others who agree with him are correct, then we may be as blown away by 2030 as our 1750 guy was by 2015

Sorry, but no.

JasonD

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #226 on: August 28, 2015, 01:31:48 PM »

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #227 on: August 28, 2015, 03:41:34 PM »
Ergophobe, probably more like what a 1940s guy would react to today.

Jason, that's cool art
I also like the Scooby-Do one: http://i.imgur.com/MQlDc.jpg
Its nice to see Velma finally lose that turtleneck.

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #228 on: August 28, 2015, 05:41:36 PM »
That is cool art.

Ergophobe, probably more like what a 1940s guy would react to today.

Maybe. We can't know. But there are a few holes I could poke in this

1. in terms of a hunter/gatherer being brought into 1750 society, we did that experiment with thousands upon thousands of slaves and they didn't die from technological shock. They died from disease or mistreatment. As recently as 1911 we did the experiment again and again, Ishi didn't die from technological shock, but from disease. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishi

2. I think we're about the same age (52). As a kid, I remember all sorts of predictions about
 - space travel - remember the show Space 1999? Uh... dude, where's my spaceship
 - artificial intelligence - HAL: "Good morning Dave."
 - evolution: moving toward no jaw, spindly arms and big heads because everything was becoming automated... then POOF Jane Fonda, Richard Simmons, the deification of Navy Seals, steroids in bodybuilding.

There was a great quote from Arthur C Clarke upon the landing of the first Mars Rover where he said "If someone had told me in 1969 that in 2000? we would land a toaster on Mars and consider it a triumph, I would never have believed it."

The key thing is that 35 years isn't that much. We just saw the release of the first new storage technology in 26(?) years since Flash/SSD. After 26 years we still mostly use spinning platters in most low to mid-range machines.

The second thing is that the trends we see at present aren't necessarily the ones that will continue, let alone exponentially.

At 52 I look at my "Alzheimer's Horizon." If they nail down the actual cause of it tomorrow, and they take five years to find a "cure" and it takes five years to bring to market, I'm in just under the wire. But they still don't know the cause (amyloid plaque may cause it or it may be a defense mechanism, they still don't know).

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the exponential increase makes sense when projecting longer time frames, but over shorter time frames we can peer into the near future and see how hard it is to change.

Imagine, for example, a completely new source of energy appeared tomorrow. A new type of plant that large amounts of energy at very low cost with no pollution. How long would it take before the world was entirely off coal and natural gas generating facilities?

In my neighborhood it took ten years to get over the squabbling on how to fund the sewer treatment plant upgrade - so it took literally 11 years to deploy an existing technology to fix a pressing problem (raw sewage going into the creek and notices of violation from the state water board).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 05:45:03 PM by ergophobe »

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #229 on: August 28, 2015, 06:53:06 PM »
I'm a little younger (43) but I watched a lot of reruns as a kid :-), so our cultural references are probably the same.  You make some good points.  Technological growth happens in fits and starts, and they don't happen across all areas at the same rate.  Just Monday I was at the California Science Center where they had an A-12 (the CIA's version of the SR-71 Blackbird) on display and I was thinking that this plane was developed 58 years ago and we still don't have anything that has toped it.  I am sure our best and brightest could with an unlimited budget make a jet powered plane that is marginally faster, but that's not likely to happen.


edit: grammar
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 07:19:12 PM by littleman »

Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #230 on: August 28, 2015, 07:15:45 PM »
>still don't have anything that has tops it
Well, not anything public.

>best and brightest
Hiring the brightest might be a tough sell. I wonder how the government competes against Google, Tesla, etc...
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 07:17:48 PM by Travoli »

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #231 on: August 28, 2015, 09:20:49 PM »
I'm a little younger (43)

Ah, I thought a little older. So you missed the moon landing.

If you were a six year-old kid in 1969 and watched moon landing, you felt like Star Trek was around the corner. And when it gets right down to it, I look at all the technology advance in my life and sort of yawn... it's so much less than I expected in these 46 years since then.

The one thing that does astound me is that I carry something in my pocket with more computing horsepower than the Cray II, the supercomputer that won the Cold War as it's know (which had a bit less juice than the iPhone 5 from what I've read).

We didn't even touch on medicine. Kurzweil has this incredible utopian view of medical advance. The thing is, look at cancer. Five-year survival rates have gone way up.... but the dirty little secret is that the main driver of that is diagnosis. More people are getting early diagnoses and many of these people were never going to die of cancer in the next five years anyway. In apples to apples comparisons, there hasn't been nearly that much progress against cancer.

So some of our positive view of the present is, I believe, unfounded.

And this is without even getting into questions of resource depletion, climate change, crippling govt debt and host of other real-world issues that can put a brake on "progress"

Rooftop

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #232 on: August 29, 2015, 10:59:30 PM »
Who fancies living in a "people zoo"?

http://glitch.news/2015-08-27-ai-robot-that-learns-new-words-in-real-time-tells-human-creators-it-will-keep-them-in-a-people-zoo.html

Interesting read, although not quite as horrific as the headline.

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #233 on: August 31, 2015, 04:19:46 PM »
Interesting read, although not quite as horrific as the headline.

Actually less horrific and more interesting than the headline would suggest. The "people zoo" comment seems canned.

But for all the talk about Google using/not really using Latent Semantic Analysis (or LSI but I forget what the "I" is in that), here's something that supposedly is really using it to simulate natural language ability.... it's coming

Brad

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #234 on: September 01, 2015, 10:24:19 PM »

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #235 on: September 01, 2015, 10:46:04 PM »
Heh, Scott Adams has a pretty interesting blog too.

DogBoy

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #236 on: September 24, 2015, 10:45:45 PM »

littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #237 on: October 05, 2015, 04:34:35 PM »
Lots of sex with robots by 2050, less with each other:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/03/sex-in-2050-more-robots-less-humans.html

^^^^ = less babies

Maybe they won't need to kill us off, just subvert our reproductive cycle?

Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #238 on: October 05, 2015, 04:51:19 PM »
Of all the ways to go, I like that idea best, LM.

nffc

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #239 on: October 08, 2015, 01:23:16 PM »
"where an AI becomes better than humans at AI design, so that it can recursively improve itself without human help. If this happens, we may face an intelligence explosion that ultimately results in machines whose intelligence exceeds ours by more than ours exceeds that of snails."

Prof. Hawking

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/3nyn5i/science_ama_series_stephen_hawking_ama_answers/