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Author Topic: Terminator Scenario  (Read 178179 times)

ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #285 on: July 12, 2016, 11:50:50 PM »
Quote from: littleman on July 12, 2016, 11:37:21 PM
created distance between the operator and the target -- much like a drone strike.

Or an atlatl. In an absolute sense, what's the difference?
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littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #286 on: July 13, 2016, 01:15:07 AM »
I'd say the difference is the distance and an abstraction layer.


In other news:
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_30118119/report-security-robot-at-stanford-shopping-mall-injures

Related: My youngest (4y.o.) was on University Ave. in Palo Alto and was approached by one of these and it made her cry.
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ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #287 on: July 13, 2016, 03:38:20 AM »
Sure. But it's relative. It's like going from a cavalry charge to a rifle, which is a huge jump up in abstraction and distance and elicited all sorts of feelings about cowardly warfare etc etc... So it's a noteworthy change. And since you've listened to the Wrath of Khans, you know that a cavalry charge could get pretty bad.

It is *not*, however, like going from a human pulling the trigger to a robot pulling the trigger, which is why a struggle to understand why everyone keeps saying they used a robot and why everyone cares so much. Let's put it another way: would it have been different if they had pulled up a 105mm howitzer and blasted him with an artillery shell? To me that would be far worse, but it would be a completely different discussion.
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Rooftop

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #288 on: July 13, 2016, 01:44:45 PM »
I find remote killing by police worrying, but I can't believe that more people aren't talking about the Police using a pound C4 to 'take out' a target.   Doesn't anyone else find that unbelievably disturbing? 
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JasonD

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #289 on: July 13, 2016, 02:32:13 PM »
> Police using a pound C4 to 'take out' a target.   Doesn't anyone else find that unbelievably disturbing?

No more disturbing than other common alternatives of delivering death.

A hail of bullets is expected, explosives are no more or less deadly than that.

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littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #290 on: July 13, 2016, 08:37:40 PM »
I'm with you Rooftop.  I hope this doesn't become the new normal.
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ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #291 on: July 13, 2016, 11:09:52 PM »
Whereas I'm with Jason. I find the effect the important thing, not the weapon.

I grabbed the Fresno Bee at the airport on my way out of town on Saturday and reading it in the plane was astounded to find out at that there were *two* stories about fatal police shootings in this town of 500,000 people, both of which were in the last couple of weeks. Were they bad guys? I don't know, but these cases weren't even on the national news. We have cops killing people every day all over America. What is troubling in America is the wanton killing. We have become so accustomed to people being shot it no longer seems shocking, but when the cops lob a pound of C4 it suddenly is.

From the perspective of the recipient and his family, he's just as dead. I guess it's just a matter of perspective, but I still can't see the difference.

Now, if it were an autonomous robot they used that got shown a picture of the bad guy and was let loose on it's own to do the killing I would see a major difference, but all that's changed here as near as I can tell is killing someone at a distance with a weapon that requires line of site versus killing someone at a distance with a weapon that uses a camera to see around the corner.

But I think we just simply see this differently. Agree or disagree, I like to at least see others' point of view, but here there's some gap that I just can't bridge...
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littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #292 on: July 14, 2016, 12:04:40 AM »
Okay, I'll try to articulate my perspective.

When a police officer shoots someone there is suppose to be an immediate threat to his/her life or the lives of others.  This, of course, is not always the case.  Now we have a situation where the police were most likely very safe, they rolled up a remote control robot and blew someone up.  They didn't have to wait him out, or negotiate.

Will we some day have remote controlled robots doing raids on homes?  Will they be equipped with guns or bombs?  What happens if someone in that house brandishes a weapon,  or attacks a robot?  There would not be any immediate danger to human life, but can the police use deadly force to stop the attack?

Each time one creates a greater abstraction layer when it comes to killing it gets easier to do.  A drone strike on a building is much less intimate than hand to hand combat, no PTSD, much less accountability.  It will also be much harder to gather counter evidence on a scene if the place is blown up.  Is it a justifiable homicide?  Lets dig through the rubble...
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ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #293 on: July 14, 2016, 12:55:31 AM »
Okay. I get your position now. I can see that. Thanks for taking the time!
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ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #294 on: July 14, 2016, 01:00:08 AM »
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littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #295 on: July 14, 2016, 01:50:03 AM »
Okay, less PTSD.  I am sure those jobs are incredibly stressful, and I'd rather dig through trash to recycle cans than take one.
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ergophobe

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #296 on: July 14, 2016, 06:39:26 PM »
Back to your original topic... I have been hearing for years of guns that would shoot around a corner with an explosive charge. It appears the military finally has them ready for testing
http://futurism.com/the-us-armys-has-a-new-smart-grenade-launcher-that-can-take-out-people-hiding-behind-cover/

I was thinking of those when I was thinking of the grey continuum between shooting someone with a bullet and delivering a charge with an RC machine.
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Travoli

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #297 on: July 14, 2016, 08:22:42 PM »
Some of those existed in WWII

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z56SNHHL60U
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littleman

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #298 on: July 19, 2016, 07:55:56 PM »
This could go in the FBA thread too I guess.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/19/amazon-wants-to-use-lampposts-churches-as-drone-perches.html

Quote
Amazon has been awarded a patent for "docking stations" for its delivery drones that will be built on tall structures such as lampposts or churches and allow the unmanned machines to recharge and pick up packages.

"The docking stations may incorporate a number of features to enable UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to fly longer routes, to fly routes more accurately, and to provide shelter during adverse conditions," Amazon's U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) filing said.

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Rooftop

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Re: Terminator Scenario
« Reply #299 on: July 20, 2016, 01:16:48 PM »
I read the URL first and spent several seconds pondering what a "lamp post church" was before reading the quote. 
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