http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/05/no-waiting-at-the-register-new-amazon-go-store-bills-everything-to-your-amazon-account.html

If you dont follow the video to the end, then the last part is about the fact this is about people too, not just avoiding the queue at the check our. A lot of $15 per hour jobs go at the checkout, giving Amazon a competitive advantage and then:


"People matter too... wow..."


You know, I watched the Italian PM get beaten today, and the people are starting to gently stir... I do hope this changes direction, but I dont think it will.

how about this for a theory probably mooted many times before...  what we are watching is the start of WW3.  It will not be state to state, or country v country, it will be people v corporates and state.

I still don't see how it actually matches a given person to a given purchase. You don't scan anything, so it must register that you enter, have some sort of facial recognition () and the fact that they know who is and isn't in the store simplifies the recognition task (plus presumably your phone is telling the story who's close to what)... then it's just a matter of tracking which item you took off the shelf.

So at very large scale, this has a big impact on the use of cash for purchases. I'm sure it will still be possible to feed bills in somewhere, but it's like the automated toll systems - you can pay cash every day if you want to wait in line in return for a minor reduction in the ability of "they" to track you, but 99% of regular commuters just get the EZ Pass and zoom through.

So in addition to cashiers, some ATM service people lose their jobs, in fair turnabout for putting all those bank tellers out of work ;-)

Who else?

Quote from: Rupert on December 05, 2016, 04:04:34 PM
what we are watching is the start of WW3.  It will not be state to state, or country v country, it will be people v corporates and state.

Actually, I think the more relevant conflict is rich vs poor as Steven Hawking said in the article you linked in the Terminator thread

Quoterisking significant political upheaval, Stephen Hawking has warned

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. People are worried about the "terminator scenario" as we call it here, where people fight machines. The problem is, way before that, if we manage automation poorly, income inequality will reach a point where we will have armed conflict between the haves and the have-nots. In the short term, this typically goes really bad for the have-nots, but in the long term, it typically goes really bad for everyone.

When you insist on the morality of work and you insist on an economy that pays people either based on hours worked or based on return on capital, and you suddenly have no more hours to work and huge sections of the society with no capital... you reach a scary moment.

RC and I were discussing this a while back. If anyone thinks revolution will be a good thing provided you're on the winning side, ask Robespierre and Trotsky how it worked out for them.

>start of WW3

On a gut level I believe it will not come down to this.  I read somewhere a while back that "democracy is the insurance policy for the wealthy".  I think that when it become apparent that civil stability is in true jeopardy policies will change.  That's what happened with the New Deal in the US during the depression.

I don't know where the numbers will be when regular people will start to think about this, maybe it is when 20% are under employed and 10% are unemployed in the US.  The numbers are probably higher in the UK and Europe due to more extensive welfare programs.  That said, it is astonishing to me how little this is on the minds of those who will be affected the most.  So many people are fighting the wrong fights right now.

QuoteSo many people are fighting the wrong fights right now.

I agree on so many levels.

The Haves will find their income diminish as the have nots find they have nothing to spend... so yes, at what point do the "elite" wake up. I don't think they will. Capitals no good if the tenants cannot pay the rent. But will that message be enough?

Like jeff bezos, he seems to have an attitude of "not my problem"  while his employees are treated really badly, he becomes one of the wealthiest men in the world. I am beginning to think he not just misguided.  But evil. Otherwise why would he behave the way he does? 

The new deal scenario is promising. Are their any other examples in history.?   Funny how these threads all turn the same way. We all know its going wrong.  We all worry about it.

But Trump and Clinton did not seem to recognise it, they could have rocked that election taking about things like that, and I am surprised Trump missed it....  and its the same over here.   Business as usual.

Quote from: littleman on December 05, 2016, 07:19:42 PM
On a gut level I believe it will not come down to this.  I read somewhere a while back that "democracy is the insurance policy for the wealthy".  I think that when it become apparent that civil stability is in true jeopardy policies will change.  That's what happened with the New Deal in the US during the depression.

Despite what I said, I agree with that. I think it will, eventually, be managed in a way that stops short of armed rebellion. A couple of years ago a friend said that 25 years ago I was the first one to explain welfare to him in a way that made sense. I had completely forgotten and had to have him remind me. Apparently I told him "It's the cheapest way for rich people to keep poor people with knives and guns out of their living rooms. It's way cheaper than a private security force."

Which is why I think you're right. Bread and circuses always have been cheaper than a professional private army. The thing I've been wonder about, though, is what happens with the robot army gets cheap...

QuoteIt's the cheapest way for rich people to keep poor people with knives and guns out of their living rooms. It's way cheaper than a private security force."

Nice, I will use that, thanks. A very good trip to school discussion ...  Throw it in and then say: What do you think? always entertaining, and mind stretching for us all.

The funny thing it that it was part of a wide-ranging discussion ca 1992 on income distribution and the minimum wage after it cost 20 francs (about USD 17 at the time) to get a copy of my apartment key in Switzerland. I remember walking and sitting on a wall in the Tuscan countryside for almost an entire day debating and at some point I threw out that line.

I forgot not only the line, but the entire idea behind it, until he reminded me about five years ago.

>what happens with the robot army gets cheap

Right, not a pleasant thought.  This is why I think it is important to get people aware of the coming crisis and push to reform laws before it happens.  When I talk to friends and family about the issue they look at me like I'm from Mars.

Quote from: littleman on December 05, 2016, 10:04:02 PM
When I talk to friends and family about the issue they look at me like I'm from Mars.

I'm seeing this change in the last six months... either that or my immediate circle is sick to death of hearing me talk about it and they nod and say yes to get me to shut up. In fact, I'm pretty sure that's the likely explanation.

>welfare

My memory of history is getting a bit fuzzy but Bismarck pensioned off huge sectors of the German population during the unification of modern Germany under Prussia.  He pensioned off all those made redundant, particularly former civil servants of the smaller German states who might oppose unification from within if they were discontent.  Oil on the waters and much cheaper than outright coercion.

>> professional private army CHEAP

I've seen so many depictions of the future where robot-like police keep the MASSES in line while the ELITE carry on.

Quote from: Mackin USA on December 06, 2016, 03:25:43 PM
I've seen so many depictions of the future where robot-like police keep the MASSES in line while the ELITE carry on.

I've seen so many depictions where multiplanetary federations whizz bewtween stars at huge multiples of the speed of light....

latest doomsday headline for retail workers...

The New York Post's front page story on Tuesday called the store "the end of jobs." Correction: This article has been updated to reflect when the NY Post story


https://beta.finance.yahoo.com/m/548bac1a-bc07-3489-a8a5-dd66be0c7aef/new-york-post-calls.html

> my immediate circle is sick to death of hearing me talk about it

Same, but there are signs it's going mainstream.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/07/privacy_is_theft_eggers_big_screen_takedown_of_google_and_facebook_emerges/