Just getting together the finances side of my new venture, and thought I might throw out the old book and see if there is anything better available.  

Currently, as my suit  site is bespoke, all the back end is hand written, from pulling in the bank statements, to managing returns and refunds.  Its hugely complex now, and I really don't want to go through that build process again.

We were looking at Magento, but Rich who does my programming, is quite keen to build the shopping cart from scratch, as it means he can easily mange cross subdomain logins, and we are only selling a handful of products and a subscription.

But then I get to the bit about refunds, full or partial, invoices, reminder emails for the subscriptions etc, and then the reports of orders, money paid , reconciliation with the bank, units sold etc etc, and cannot help but think this must have been done so many times it should be like falling off a log.

With Quickbooks
so I have started looking at

• Secure Trading for taking the cash.
• 
  Quickbooks online for feeding the data to via api.
• 
  Managing all credits (have to feed that data back to the site for refunds ) on Quickbooks
• 
  And then pulling in the bank details automatically to reconcile it all

With Sage
But then after talking to sage, who basically told me it could not be done online and I had to download software and run it on the PC,  I bought something through Sagepay, so I know there is some online options there.


Has anyone got a simple, integrated system like this working, or is it an unattainable dream, without doing it as a bespoke build?

I have been on Quicken since the first year it was released and moved to QBooks as soon as it was available.  BUT only for offline stuff. I know nothing of Sage, but I have massive misgivings about trying to integrate anything involving Intuit.  YOU are the square peg and they will force you into that round hole.  So, I'd only consider QB if you can make it do all your requirements straight out of the box.

The good thing is that QB is pretty much the defacto standard for small business accounting here in the US. Accountant firms are more than familiar with it and can use your records for tax prep, etc. They can also give advice about how to set up transactions, accounts, whatever.

Having written an AR/AP system long ago, I can tell you that I wouldn't want to do it again. Custom is going to end up being a massive time & money pit.

Quote from: rcjordan on December 12, 2016, 05:45:21 PM
I have massive misgivings about trying to integrate anything involving Intuit. 

A hassle, but there are solutions. I've used Webgility for about 5 years on a site with the occaisional glithc
http://www.webgility.com/integrations/quickbooks

That will work with Magento and many others, but I don't know if you can integrate a bespoke shop with Webgility (guessing not).

If you went with one of the hosted options (Shopify, Shopify Plus, Big Commerce, etc), then you're pretty much assured that you'll have access to a well-maintained QB integration regardless of the efforts Intuit makes to break that. But it sounds like you're committed to bespoke solutions, so that doesn't help either.

One of my suppliers swears by quickbooks (B2B), it is not quite right for me as I have complex needs. However, they have now stopped taking credit cards so as this is one of your points I thought I would let you know as this may affect your plans. I know you want something streamlines but I still stand by the flexibility and ease of development of woocommerce (even considering I did a stupid update and the sky fell on my head a couple of weeks ago on one shop!).

Quote from: Rupert on December 12, 2016, 05:14:13 PM
Has anyone got a simple, integrated system like this working, or is it an unattainable dream, without doing it as a bespoke build?

It occurs to me that one option might be the Shopify integration. They have done the integration for Wordpress (Shopify site that runs on Wordpress up until the checkout point). But that's just a demo. If Rich really wants to go bespoke, he should be able to use the Shopify SDK and build with it, much like they have with Wordpress.

Then you've got an app market that includes a couple of QB integrations

https://apps.shopify.com/shopify-for-wordpress

Ah wonderful. Thanks all. We use Quickbooks, and have for years.  Sue is interested in trying Sage, incase she has to get a job in the UK... that seems to be the defacto platform here. Still, if this fails, we will have to move to the States.

Webgility On this list for deeper study.  Shopify, not considered it as a option. Same with woocommerce. I had a shop I built with Zencart a long time ago, and I think they are forked from the same source?

Will dig deeper with all.

My gut feeling is sorting the log in across sub domains ought to be easy, but I know Rich is worried about security, and what third party software introduces. And let face it, for decisions like that this, I know Jack s**t

OK, Looks like we are definitely going bespoke.  We wrote down the pros and cons, and the amount of info that has to be shared between the items they buy and other parts of the site, from an accounts set up point of view means it is easier and safer. 

As it is based on Laravel, there are plug ins that connect with both secure trading and quickbooks, and so I think the basic order management will be online, and then data managed to both for analysis and reconciliation.

No idea what Laravel is... something that Rich throws about! (OK its a php tool of some sorts, but not get the idea I know how to build with it)

Check out Xero as well. As a pure SAAS they are much more web-centric than other solutions we've used in the past.   

Laravel is on my list to do's in the new year. Embrace it as from what I've read it's a good framework to build on.

If it's of any consideration I use Kashflow, and can't grumble with it. Does what I want, in a way that doesn't confuse me.
Has all the integrations with the banks etc, and also has an API to dabble in.

Ok thats 2 great leads thank you. Both added to the list. Xero was recommended by someone else I trust, but I got the impression that it was more designed for a few transactions, like Freshbooks, rather than a load from a website (Aiming high )

I guess I need to re look.

Kasflow... never heard of it.  thx.

I know when I was looking around the main sticking point that put me off xero was they had a limit on the number of transactions you could enter a month.
So for example, to get around this you would need to consolidate the daily takings (or whatever interval) into one transaction from whatever payment source.
In Kashflow, I would have it all linked up and I could click on a customer and see everything in one place.
But this might have changed now, as it was a while back.

Quote from: Rupert on December 13, 2016, 12:50:44 PM
OK, Looks like we are definitely going bespoke. 

I thought that was already a done deal. I mentioned Shopify because the API lets you build a bespoke front end and then offload all the PCI compliance, shipping integration, order management, payment gateway and everything to Shopify. For example, you just plug in a scale and a label printer, and print shipping labels directly from Shopify and the costs just become part of your monthly bill (US Postal and UPS, not sure about other regions). In terms of payment processing, if you bump up to a higher tier, you get a discount. I think we figured out the breakeven was only a few thousand dollars a month in sales (maybe as much as 10K) because at the lowest tier you pay 2.9% but the highest tier is 2.2%

Anyway, it might not fit your needs. I put a simple shop on there and it was great. I'm putting a more complex shop on there now using their front end, but think long term it might end up as a bespoke front end (this is a lingering site migration that was started, I hate to say it, before the bespoke front end option was particularly robust).

Not trying to sell it, but just making sure you've considered all the implementation challenges
- payment gateway
- accounting
- shipping
- PCI compliance
- order tracking (somewhat of a weak point with Shopify IMO)

Quote
No idea what Laravel is...

It's a framework like Symfony or Code Igniter. Basically it has components ready-built. Think Laravel is to PHP as JQuery is to Javascript as Rails is to Ruby

QuoteAPI lets you build a bespoke front

OK, I think I understand what you are saying. I am like to go with:

- payment gateway -- UK company Securetrading
- accounting -- well thats the biggy... currently Quickbooks, so likely to say that way.
- shipping  --   One simple box.  Royal mail.  We take them to the local Post office. Its going to be a small parcel, so cheap, tracked, and relaiable, and they bill us. might collect if there are enough.
- PCI compliance -- interesting one.  In the UK, we have to be scanned every 3 months, and complete complex forms. nightmare. I cannot see that changing.
- order tracking -- Part of shipping?  or do you mean something else?

Looks like Xero needs the £30 per month option (Or just less.)  Then you can do everything. Looks like Kashflow is half the price. Still small beer if it all works out.

RoyalMail

Get an online business account if you haven't already - https://www.royalmail.com/discounts-payment/credit-account/online-business-account
You save a bit on the postage that the post office would get instead.

Thanks for the nudge....  trouble is we know the local Post office quite well.  They help in the care of one parent, (just keeping an eye and reporting)  I guess if I ever get too big, I will have to do that!  Passed the link to Sue anyway, she is in charge of logistics