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Ferguson

Started by JasonD, August 20, 2014, 06:45:38 PM

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JasonD

As a simple Brit who has had limited experience with the police here, and no experience with the police anywhere else, can someone explain why Ferguson is bad?

littleman

Wikipedia  has a good synopsis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Michael_Brown

Are you looking for opinions?

Drastic

Personally I think a lot of dynamics were/are at play.

1) militant attitude by police. This is getting worse lately, have been talking with people about it locally here before this event for a while now. Police seem to have a no-grey-area attitude, eventually to their detriment.

2) racial tensions. That place is predominantly black, with a predominantly white police force. Perceived or real threats or injustices, race tension is high.

3) "I'm a bad-ass" and entitled attitude by young people these days, often fueled by crowd mentality. Kids are just plain stupid when it comes to police (or any authority really), which is why I think we are dealing with #1.

I think several times someone from either side in the situation had an opportunity to make a better decision for a much better outcome.

JasonD

> Are you looking for opinions?

Yup. I understand the facts, I just don't understand the outcome... I don't know if it's due to me being a white Brit in an averageish kind of area, but the experiences out there seem so alien (from all sides) to anything I've encountered, I am just lost for words... (and understanding as to why?..)

littleman

Ok my opinion:  Two hot headed men got into an altercation.  One was a big black young man, the other was a white cop with a gun and the law on his side. 

<edit>
I agree with Dras.

Re point #1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwytoxMuk4U
Warning, very disturbing content.
This was in New Mexico.  The man who was shot was mentally ill and was camping illegally.   Since 9/11 there has been a paramilitary swing in local police departments where they treat citizens like potential combatants. 

JasonD

The video:

I just watched it and to say I am shocked is an understatement of understatements. WTF happened to the America I loved as a country? ;(

littleman

I don't really have an answer for you, but I believe the situation is dynamic.  The police in Albuquerque have come under national attention and scrutiny. I think part of the answer is technology, many want all police officers to wear mandatory cameras while on duty.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/11/headlines#4119

Brad

I can't say it any better than Drastic did.

Abuse of power is corruption no different than taking bribes, yet we overlook that too easily. Somehow, a lot of cops think you have to obey all their orders instead of all *lawful* orders. An important distinction.

Brad

Some background sources on militarizing the police in US.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/08/turning-policemen-into-soldiers-the-culmination-of-a-long-trend/376052/

Also playing a part: economics.  Many police departments uniform allowances have not kept up with costs so cops are looking for durable one uniform for everything unforms .  Old fashioned dress uniforms are getting abandoned for BDU's, a combat uniform.  People, including cops, do act differently when wearing formal vs. Informal clothing.

Drastic

>Old fashioned dress uniforms are getting abandoned for BDU's, a combat uniform.

Excellent point, hadn't considered that.

Mackin USA

JasonD:

We need to WAIT for all the facts. Could take weeks or months.
We have a "Law & Order" mentality where everything must be solved in an hour.   IMO
Mr. Mackin

JasonD

> We need to WAIT for all the facts. Could take weeks or months.
> We have a "Law & Order" mentality where everything must be solved in an hour.   IMO

I completely agree on both points. On a humanitarian level though, and as someone who knows the US relatively well, (and to be frank, loves it) but isn't American, it simply shocks me.

The closest I have seen here were in the early 80's and then again in the 90's with riots in Brixton, Hackney etc (Historically poor and black areas of London - although both are massively expensive now).

It wasn't pleasant but was a country mile away from what's happening there.

littleman

#12
Don't re-watch that video, but one of the results from it is that New Mexico became the third state to not have Qualified Immunity after Colorado and Connecticut (and New York City).